SOP2 - No Autopilot

[Faelandaea 16]

I am going to assess that SOP2 is for hand flying.  I have been following the checklists to the letter and tried this on three flights this morning.  Everything goes smooth, no errors, EICAS is clear, FMC has no messages, yet whenever I engage the autopilot on SOP2 it just disengages again.  When it is trying to activate, the magenta crosshairs on the display go to either none or a single line (random between vertical or horizontal).  

I do indeed have perfect flight guidance as long as I am hand flying, so, no, this is NOT an IRS alignment issue.  On SOP1, if we have an IRS issue, the FMC will warn you that you are on "Split IRS Use", but under those conditions, autopilot can still be used.  The ONLY drawback to split IRS is you cannot do a Cat III autoland, only CAT II.  

So is this correct that SOP 2 is for hand flying only?  Again, no errors, checklist is perfect and F/O hasn;t notified me of anything either.  No warning lights.  All is according to the SOP 2 Tutorial.  Again, checked 3 times on this.  I think i prefer SOP1 anyway, as it is flawless.  The only reason I got curious about SOP2 was another thread that was asking customers which SOP they prefer.  But it seems strange to have a long haul airliner use an SOP that prevents autopilot use.

[JayBee420th 0]

Hi. 

I'm using SOP 2 and have no issues with autopilot engaging. I use the autoland quite a lot.

I'm just shooting in the dark here, but one thing that's not on the checklists are the flight directors. You need to put both of them on. The FO doesn't engage his/hers.

Just in case if you missed that.

 

 

[byork 2,258]

SOP2 was used at a real world airline.  No one hand flies a 747 except for takeoffs and some landings. That would be very tiring!

If the autopilot is not going on, your aircraft is not configured properly.

 

Cheers,

[Faelandaea 16]

1 hour ago, JayBee420th said:

Hi. 

I'm using SOP 2 and have no issues with autopilot engaging. I use the autoland quite a lot.

I'm just shooting in the dark here, but one thing that's not on the checklists are the flight directors. You need to put both of them on. The FO doesn't engage his/hers.

Just in case if you missed that.

 

 

Actually turning both flight directors on is in the official flow sheet from FS2Crew for this bird.  And I did do that.

39 minutes ago, byork said:

SOP2 was used at a real world airline.  No one hand flies a 747 except for takeoffs and some landings. That would be very tiring!

If the autopilot is not going on, your aircraft is not configured properly.

 

Cheers,

At the risk of boring you to bloody death, would you mind looking at a YouTube video of me attempting SOP2 then?  I was going to Live Stream it tonight to also see if anyone can point out what might be amiss. 

[JayBee420th 0]

2 hours ago, Faelandaea Dravin said:

Actually turning both flight directors on is in the official flow sheet from FS2Crew for this bird.  And I did do that.

At the risk of boring you to bloody death, would you mind looking at a YouTube video of me attempting SOP2 then?  I was going to Live Stream it tonight to also see if anyone can point out what might be amiss. 

Yes, but I don't think they check that on the checklist. I've missed it at least once and was puzzled for a moment that I couldn't engage VNAV or LNAV prior to take-off.

I'm still very "green" when it comes to the 747, but I like watching flight videos so if you'll end up uploading it... :D

[Faelandaea 16]

So ... want to know the GREAT thing about Live Streaming and recording video?  It's about the same as calling an expert over to look over your shoulder while you try to show them something that keeps failing you ... when they are standing there, the failure doesn't happen.  BUT ... I think this time I know why.

Okay, please correct me if i am wrong.  Going by proper procedure, at +50 minutes, the F/O goes out for the walkaround.  At this time, I am to run my preflight checks, and part of that is, per the checklist, turning both F/Ds on.  I remember reading that on these forums, also, as being a major cause of some issues for SOP2 users, so I was pretty adamant about making sure I did that part of the checklist.  

However, during this live stream, I noticed something strange ... well, maybe not so strange.  So in SOP1, the F/O turns on her own flight director during her preflight.  Well, in SOP2, she appears to want to do the same thing ... but since I already had hers turned on, her interacting with it turned it OFF again!  I never noticed this on the prior flights, and even though no errors or anything came up in the EICAS, I am wondering if that is what I missed during my troubleshooting on the prior trips I took today.  

So, if i may ask ... which is correct ... is SHE supposed to turn her own F/D on in SOP2 or am I supposed to be the one doing it?  

I also noticed at the end of the flight she did not turn her side off, and that part is not in my checklist (my checklist specifically stated only CAPT F/D off for my shutdown procedure).

Anyway, here's the weird things that happened with SOP2 during my flight in the video I made (which will be linked below):

1. At 16:00 - I set "per chart" in the departure brief.  Later on, I don't know when exactly, it gets reset to "As assigned by ATC".  I noticed the change back when i did the brief.
2. At 28:40 - i set BOTH Flight Directors to ON.  
3. At 31:45 - This one caught me off guard.  On all other flights today, the PA/Evac check went flawless, yet this time when the "ding" was heard and I said "Flight Deck", no one would respond.  I spend a few minutes saying everything from "Flight Deck", "hello, Flight Deck", to a few expletives ... nothing worked.  LOL.  However, I think this one was purely random because it worked on all of my other flights :)
4. At 39:25 - Right after the F/O did her preflight ... yup ... her F/D is off.  She shut it off during her preflight ... something I didn't even notice until later on towards departure time.
5. At 1:05:50 - I tried to engage the Autopilot.  it did freak out again, so I hand flew for a while longer and then tried again.  I am unsure if this time it was by sheer luck or maybe it had to do with me catching the F/O flight director issue, but the A/P decided to eventually work on the second or third try.
6. At 2:01:10 - After the secure checklist ... I noticed she never shut her F/D off and according to my checklist I only do the CAPT side during shutdown.  Is that a typo for SOP2?

I want to make it VERY clear here that I am NOT groaning and complaining about FS2Crew.  I love this software.  This is most likely just me being so used to SOP1 that I am fouling up stuff as we go.  That's why I made the live stream/video so I could get input from others on SOP2.  I still love SOP1, probably because I can do it in my sleep pretty much.  So I absolutely do not want the developers thinking this is a whine thread.  I am a tech geek, and I am all about troubleshooting.  My OCD takes over and I always want to find solutions to things I am doing wrong or things I find that may be wrong in manuals, etc.  So please just consider this interaction/curiosity and NOT a complaint.

Thanks :)

 

[byork 2,258]

Can you turn on the autopilot manually?

[pete_auau 1,152]

19 minutes ago, byork said:

Can you turn on the autopilot manually?

yes  he  did   at the 1.o5:50  mark  you see  him  switch  on the auto manually  and  it  stayed  connected

[byork 2,258]

Hmmm, can anyone else reproduce this in SOP 2?

[NakedChef 0]

I have flown 5 or 7 trips with sop2 and neither encountered the problem with the FD nor the autopilot.

Did you do any sudden yoke movements at the 1:05:xx mark in the video?

[Faelandaea 16]

Nope.  My procedure is to trim the aircraft up and then let go of the yoke completely before engaging autopilot on any aircraft, GA or airliner.  It's best practice to already be trimmed up and stable before engaging A/P regardless of aircraft.  It's so frigging weird.

So clarification ... are you guys switching on BOTH F/Ds or are you letting the F/O switch hers on her own.  On my checklist it says I have to do it, so that's why I've been doing it myself.

[JayBee420th 0]

I do it myself, but I've switched off the FO preflight in the config.

[pete_auau 1,152]

11 hours ago, Faelandaea Dravin said:

Nope.  My procedure is to trim the aircraft up and then let go of the yoke completely before engaging autopilot on any aircraft, GA or airliner.  It's best practice to already be trimmed up and stable before engaging A/P regardless of aircraft.  It's so frigging weird.

So clarification ... are you guys switching on BOTH F/Ds or are you letting the F/O switch hers on her own.  On my checklist it says I have to do it, so that's why I've been doing it myself.

just to add  another  thought   but   it  could  be  related  to  what  your  weather  addon  is,  have  you tried  it  without  using   your  weather  addon?

[olspsd08 8]

I had an issue with the AP not coming on and I calibrated my flight stick, maybe that might help, also I unplugged my HOTAS because I have both flight sticks plugged in. Again hopefully it helps. 

[Faelandaea 16]

I only have the CH yoke and calibration did not help.  As for the weather ... now THAT one I have yet to test.  I usually always fly with real weather as pilots typically have no control over weather, but I will try a flight with no weather and see if that helps.  I use Active Sky for my weather.

To be honest, even though i got through that flight successfully, I think i like SOP1 a lot better anyway.  SOP1 feels more civil, where SOP2 almost feels sudo-militaristic.  Something just feels off about it to me for an airline atmosphere.