X-Plane 11.10 Beta

[Murmur 3,941]

7 hours ago, jcomm said:

I also assumed that was the case, but apparently it is not like so. The control surfaces are now moving due to the new way the core FDM calculates the airflow effects over the trim tabs, which varies with "q" (dynamic pressure )...

Looks like the stick-free behaviour is really there.

I zeroed all trims of the C172 in plane-maker and then entered XP and centered all controls and trims. Slewed the aircraft at altitude and set max wind, gust and turbulence.

Then, set the external ride-along view (SHIFT + 6) and you can clearly see the elevator and (to a lesser degree) the rudder and the ailerons moving by themselves. It is also confirmed by data output of flight control deflections.

Maybe the yoke is not moving because it is connected to the wrong datarefs in the C172.

It is indeed visually nice to see controls being thrown aroung by turbulence, I just wonder if it's the ideal choice. Maybe an option should be added in Plane-Maker to turn that on or off.

 

[jcomm 5,919]

Murmur,

I can't replicate that in XP11.10b3, with either the default C172 or the C400... Actually, the only control showing deflection was the rudder, but only before I set the vert stab cant to zero degrees...

Make sure your Art Stab sliders are full left!  What you're seeing is the effect of Art Stab....

With Art Stab full left, in the Joystick Options Menu - Sensitivity section, the trim tabs for aileron and rudder at 0.000º in Plane Maker Control Geometry, and the trims set to centered ( use a key for centring aileron and rudder trim which although they shouldn't, still work in the C172 ) no matter how intense you set the wind, shear, and turbulence, the controls will stay put at 0.000 :-/

I run XP11 at 3 or 4 FMs per cycle.

[Murmur 3,941]

31 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Make sure your Art Stab sliders are full left!  What you're seeing is the effect of Art Stab....

CORRECT! You are right, my previous post was totally wrong. The deflection was caused by art stab settings.

31 minutes ago, jcomm said:

:-/

Why that emoticon? I am VERY relieved that I was wrong, and that Austin has not modeled a free-stick behaviour. Infact there isn't ANY flight simulator that models free-stick behaviour (in all flight sims, controls don't move with the wind or turbulence). It is a necessary compromise due to the limitations of PC flight controls (at least the non-force feedback ones) and is not more or less realistic than the other choice.

Sims like DCS have a limited modeling of:

.) surfaces moving during e.g. the takeoff run (and that amounts basically to a visual effect), like X-Plane now also has

.) surfaces moving during flap extension. And as I said, that is a highly specific effect, hard to model in a general fashion, and basically equivalent to having an elevator deflection delta when lowering the flaps (and I presume not hard to model if a flight sim allows, natively or with plugin, to change elevator deflection with flaps). Of course access to the real aircraft or accurate flight test data is essential here.

 

[jcomm 5,919]

Yes,

it would be very tricky to simulate without force feedback controllers, and X-Plane is apparently prepared to simulate control forces - there's a whole section for it in Plane Maker and I guess it's meant to be used with professional solutions ?

Anyway, I will be fine with just the additional modelling provided by XP11.10 - like the propwash deflection.

Austin will probably find out what is causing the right rolling tendency and fine tune it too. Let's hope for the best...

 

 

[Evan Banalian 5]

On 10/14/2017 at 2:34 AM, jh71 said:

The current state of software development is that beta's are a kind of preview. Not everybody new to X-Plane is aware what beta software in reality means (buggy and slow due to internal checkings). I don't think he is trolling, but that his expectations are wrong. It will take at least a few more cycles through the mill before the beta is really useable (at this moment, we are at this stage: if the app starts at all, we are good).

Thank you for your quick reply, of course I''m not trolling I don't know what's wrong with these people. I reported the issue I was having and I have the right to do so. I will be patient and I do understand that beta's are full for bugs, but the changes they made to flight physics are too aggressive and noticeable. I hope these issue will get fixed soon as I'm a big believer of x plane future.

[soaring_penguin 428]

The good thing is that we don't have to participate if we don't want to, X-Plane 11.05 is stable as it is, and very use-able. I don't think there are problems with the flight physics, but the consensus is indeed that the effects need fine tuning in the beta's. The left roll torque bug we experienced in XP 10 (and older) was much more serious, and only got attention after someone (I believe Murmur) could provide prove to Austin that his numbers were wrong.

[Janov 2,383]

1 hour ago, Evan Banalian said:

Thank you for your quick reply, of course I''m not trolling I don't know what's wrong with these people. I reported the issue I was having and I have the right to do so. I will be patient and I do understand that beta's are full for bugs, but the changes they made to flight physics are too aggressive and noticeable. I hope these issue will get fixed soon as I'm a big believer of x plane future.

Your post is demeaning to the developers of X-Plane. It is also demeaning to everyone in the community who was contributed, either by making airports or reporting bugs (with a lot of tedious testing, sometimes) to make X-Plane better.

We have a list of bug fixes that is many pages long, and you ask what they have done except for breaking things?

If you can´t see what is wrong with your post...well, that says a lot about the person you are.

Jan

 

 

[FlyBaby 659]

2 hours ago, Janov said:

Your post is demeaning to the developers of X-Plane. It is also demeaning to everyone in the community who was contributed...

 

@Evan Banalian has the right to express his thoughts here in the forums. I imagine that he paid for X-plane (much like everyone else here) and registered on this forum (much like everyone else here) to share his thoughts / contribute etc. 

Contrary to your comments about his posts, your condemning him "says a lot" about the person you are. Others seemed to respond to him without resorting to attacking him, you might want to try route next time.

 

[strider1 575]

12 hours ago, Evan Banalian said:

Thank you for your quick reply, of course I''m not trolling I don't know what's wrong with these people. I reported the issue I was having and I have the right to do so. I will be patient and I do understand that beta's are full for bugs, but the changes they made to flight physics are too aggressive and noticeable. I hope these issue will get fixed soon as I'm a big believer of x plane future.

Calm down ! It's a beta and sometimes you have to take two steps backwards to move 3 or 4 steps forward ! They didn't build Rome in a day. Last thing we want in X-Plane is a stagnate sim like FSX. 

[strider1 575]

7 hours ago, FlyBaby said:

@Evan Banalian has the right to express his thoughts here in the forums. I imagine that he paid for X-plane (much like everyone else here) and registered on this forum (much like everyone else here) to share his thoughts / contribute etc. 

Contrary to your comments about his posts, your condemning him "says a lot" about the person you are. Others seemed to respond to him without resorting to attacking him, you might want to try route next time.

 

His thoughts were very condescending and pointless since it solves nothing. It was just a frustrating thought. Maybe he is new X-plane betas. 

[Evan Banalian 5]

11 hours ago, Janov said:

Your post is demeaning to the developers of X-Plane. It is also demeaning to everyone in the community who was contributed, either by making airports or reporting bugs (with a lot of tedious testing, sometimes) to make X-Plane better.

We have a list of bug fixes that is many pages long, and you ask what they have done except for breaking things?

If you can´t see what is wrong with your post...well, that says a lot about the person you are.

Jan

No I don't see what is wrong with my post. I reported an issue that is present on my sim. Also I reported that bug to x plane. if we don't file and report bugs it's not going to get anything fixed.

11 hours ago, Janov said:

 

 

[Evan Banalian 5]

1 hour ago, strider1 said:

Calm down ! It's a beta and sometimes you have to take two steps backwards to move 3 or 4 steps forward ! They didn't build Rome in a day. Last thing we want in X-Plane is a stagnate sim like FSX. 

The problem is not only dealing with a temporary beta's as everyone claim here. How about the draw night lighting distance problem that x plane have for more than 2 years or so...why this problem didn't get fixed till now since the early days of x plane 10. it's a major problem for night flying and needs to be fixed, period.

 

[strider1 575]

37 minutes ago, Evan Banalian said:

The problem is not only dealing with a temporary beta's as everyone claim here. How about the draw night lighting distance problem that x plane have for more than 2 years or so...why this problem didn't get fixed till now since the early days of x plane 10. it's a major problem for night flying and needs to be fixed, period.

 

X-Plane snail pace of development is frustrating at times but it is what is, and we are just going along for the ride. When you buy a product you typically buy AS IS. I think Laminar is pretty generous with their product updates. They could charge for all of these new feature updates. We got new landmarks, with more to come, a new C172 with a G1000 and a bunch of stuff under the hood that will make the sim even better over time ! It's a long term project.  

The draw distance of lights is still not fixed nor is it broken. They could increase the draw distance of the lights but that will kill your FPS since the lights are part of autogen. Its a design limit and will be looked at when they move over to the new Vulcan API.

Xplane will probably never be perfect. If you think you could do a better job then open shop and start programming ! Or get a PPL and plane and start flying !

Cheers.....

 

[Janov 2,383]

On 14.10.2017 at 10:03 AM, Evan Banalian said:

so what they did in this 10.10 update other than making the sim a little slower, and screw up the flight physics ?

There are several long standing issues in X-Plane - and I think the devs are very open and communicative about them.

I think its fair to ask of the user to inform himself through the publicly availabe channels before passing judgement on the ability of a dev team (like reading a change log).

I think an appropriate post to vent someone´s frustration about his favourite pet-peeve issue not getting fixed would be along the lines of:

"I see the long list of fixes in beta 11.xxx, but I am disappointed that they didn´t fix..." or

"It really frustrates me that they didn´t fix...".

Everyone is entitled to have an opinion and also to voice his frustration, but I took offence at the tone of the above post, claiming (in a thinly veiled rethorical question) that the team has been doing nothing but making matters worse - suggesting not only ineptitude but also bad intention.

Yes, we have "freedom of speech" and "...entitled to opinon..." but I think this has limits where someone else is attacked personally. I apologize for hinting at a possibly less than immaculate personality trait in the original poster, I should not have done that, even though I took offence at what he wrote.

Jan

[Old_As_Dirt 160]

Please guys.....