PMDG and Dynamic Lighting

[serviceceiling 135]

4 hours ago, downscc said:

PMDG has said that it is technically impractical, not impossible. 

The only thing that is "technically impractical" is having 5FPS due to fancy lighting in 2017. P3D v4.1 is such a beautiful sim that performs so well on modern systems but it clearly has its problems in the light rendering department. 

[Anxu00 176]

10 hours ago, downscc said:

Sure, there are those that prefer the software to be degraded for the sake of not demanding too much from hardware

I am seeing report powerful GPU brought to its knees using DL and AA setting that give the sim the smooth looking people wants.  Also not everyone can afford a 1000$+ GPU.  PMDG has stated that the airport scenery has to be 100% V4 compatible to not having the DL degradation, alas scenery developer also can't be trusted either, as I see plenty of report that a scenery using DL brought down the system.  To me it's very clear that using DL is not for everyone, hence LM provides an option to turn it off. Unfortunately, that also mean turning off lights for PMDG aircraft as well.  If LM know that the feature is a performance hog and provided an escape, why not a premier developer such as PMDG?  I believe that the design choice was made by PMDG in good faith about DL performance by LM and sadly it was not the case.  Not sure where to go from here, flying in day time all the time, go back to v3, or cursing at DL at night with v4.  So we are given the removal the VAS barrier and now be told to buy the most expensive GPU? Something is definitely not right. 

[downscc 1,327]

13 hours ago, Anxu00 said:

So we are given the removal the VAS barrier and now be told to buy the most expensive GPU?

I don't know how you come to this conclusion.  I have a GTX980Ti that performs very well and I rarely notice a decrease in performance due to lighting. 

[anden145 2,285]

On 11/12/2017 at 10:05 AM, Stefanrus said:

agree with you its not so hard to include legacy lights

I just love how people express themselves and throw out conclusions regarding solutions, to which they have no idea how is done. How do you know how hard it is??? Do you have any inside information regarding the way PMDG has incorporated the lighting into the model?

As far as I know, PMDG has built the lights into the model, hence it would probably require two different models - for just the lighting.

[serviceceiling 135]

3 hours ago, Anders Bermann said:

I just love how people express themselves and throw out conclusions regarding solutions, to which they have no idea how is done. How do you know how hard it is??? Do you have any inside information regarding the way PMDG has incorporated the lighting into the model?

As far as I know, PMDG has built the lights into the model, hence it would probably require two different models - for just the lighting.

But it IS already there. Why should we, the customers, know or have any idea how it all works in the code and from a developers standpoint? This very topic is a clear indicative that there is quite a large outcry for a better solution regarding lighting. Even at airports that are "supposedly" v4 native I get horrible performance when I turn on the lights (even the cockpit flood lights). This really kills the immersion and is a clear step back when it comes to aircraft development. Why create a new bottleneck for everyone when there is no need? 

You simply lose customers that way my friend...

[downscc 1,327]

38 minutes ago, serviceceiling said:

I get horrible performance when I turn on the lights (even the cockpit flood lights).

I would say that if your cockpit overhead light causes problems your solution should be in your display options.  This is not a common complaint.

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

6 hours ago, downscc said:

I don't know how you come to this conclusion.  I have a GTX980Ti that performs very well and I rarely notice a decrease in performance due to lighting. 

I find this hard to believe...just sayin...

this coming from using a 1080 ti and having it brought to its knees with DL.

 

[downscc 1,327]

17 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

I find this hard to believe...just sayin...

this coming from using a 1080 ti and having it brought to its knees with DL.

 

I beta tested the Queen with her lighting and would have certainly raised a flag had it been an issue. Just sayin', you need to configure your system to either maximize performance or maximize quality, or to find a good blend of both.

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

2 hours ago, downscc said:

I beta tested the Queen with her lighting and would have certainly raised a flag had it been an issue. Just sayin', you need to configure your system to either maximize performance or maximize quality, or to find a good blend of both.

I go from 45 fps locked down to 18 fps when all the aircraft lights are on.

Put all my sliders all the way to the right, turned off all shadows and reflections. Decreased texture size to 256x256.

I literally cant make the settings worse. I saw an increase in fps to 25....with stutters as well.

I will say this.....performance is fine until I pan down to take a look at my displays in the cockpit. Then it all goes to word not allowed.

All this on brand new build, fresh install of p3d v4. 8700k at 5 ghz occt and prime 95 stable as well as a 1080ti.

Just curious, what were your testing scenarios when you beta tested the queen???

What are your current sim settings?

I know you feel immensely proud of yourself for beta testing a pmdg product so put your money where your mouth and offer something of substance instead of your arrogance and extrmely vague solutions to a problem most people are having.

[downscc 1,327]

Whoa... okay. All sliders right except terrain mesh.  4096 textures. 4k display. 4xMSAA. Frame rate locked to 24.  I will see a frame drop more from the GMCS in the -300ER than I do with DL in the Queen. Worst case maybe down to 18, not much degradation in terms of stuttering. I can run all day at 20 with smooth animation but bumped it to 24 to reduce the loss of anti collision light flashes.  I have a 6700K OC at 4.8 GHz and GTX980Ti.  I've done nothing special in my configuration.

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

2 hours ago, downscc said:

Whoa... okay. All sliders right except terrain mesh.  4096 textures. 4k display. 4xMSAA. Frame rate locked to 24.  I will see a frame drop more from the GMCS in the -300ER than I do with DL in the Queen. Worst case maybe down to 18, not much degradation in terms of stuttering. I can run all day at 20 with smooth animation but bumped it to 24 to reduce the loss of anti collision light flashes.  I have a 6700K OC at 4.8 GHz and GTX980Ti.  I've done nothing special in my configuration.

You get the same performance I do give or take. The problem is, most of us aren't satisfied with double those figures during the daytime and then having to deal with sub 30 even sub 20 fps performance at night time. 

20 fps may be smooth in terms of frame times but it isn't a great experience when it comes off as a slideshow.

I am sorry I snapped at you but you really cannot say that you don't see a performance drop when you keep your fps limiter set to 20 or even 24 at all times. You've essentially skewed your own results. Its a failed test! I think most wouldn't even consider what you have your fps locked to as good performance to begin with. Most of us keep it locked at 30...I myself keep mine locked at 45.

Its like saying you have a car that tops out 5mph. A new type of gasoline hits the market..... Then you say, "well when I put this new gas in my car, I don't see any decrease in top speed" when every one else went from 60mph down to 5mph and is complaining about the terrible gasoline. 

 

[serviceceiling 135]

20 hours ago, downscc said:

Whoa... okay. All sliders right except terrain mesh.  4096 textures. 4k display. 4xMSAA. Frame rate locked to 24.  I will see a frame drop more from the GMCS in the -300ER than I do with DL in the Queen. Worst case maybe down to 18, not much degradation in terms of stuttering. I can run all day at 20 with smooth animation but bumped it to 24 to reduce the loss of anti collision light flashes.  I have a 6700K OC at 4.8 GHz and GTX980Ti.  I've done nothing special in my configuration.

Not everyone has an overclocked high-end CPU and a high-end GPU. And like I said, 4k screens in order to be able to use MSAA aren't an option for everyone. And to be honest, why should I significantly downgrade my visuals when I can have all my sliders right and get 30+ fps during daystime, just to have some fancy lighting at night? A lot of people seem to have problems with dynamic lighting on their systems. 

[Anxu00 176]

On 11/15/2017 at 4:08 PM, downscc said:

I can run all day at 20 with smooth animation but bumped it to 24 to reduce the loss of anti collision light flashes.

And at night? Or you meant to say: day or night?  The low response I have had on my other thread asking about airports that are V4 native and DL is an indication that most don't run with fancy airport sceneries and at night.  My ask there was based on the assertion from Robert R. that only V4 native airports will be where PMDG using DL will not cause a huge drop in FPS. My argument is still that we ask and put a lot of faith in what the scenery developer claims, and most of the time now, you can't find out unless you spent the money on the scenery package.  DL to me is a disastrous feature by LM in conjunction with AA setting that is better than MSAA, I am waiting to see what they are going to do about it in future releases.  I hope PMDG will listen to the customers, even though it's not their fault that LM feature does not perform.  One can't choose when to land, I guess you do, but why? Landing at night is whole new set of challenges, in addition to the shear joy of seeing the whole airport at night.  Not able to do that certainly remove a very big part of using the sim.  People want to use the full extend of whatever they paid for. 

[andreh 125]

9 hours ago, Anxu00 said:

DL to me is a disastrous feature by LM in conjunction with AA setting that is better than MSAA,

I have to agree. I haven't done a lot of testing, but DL and 4xSSAA with the 737NGX at FlyTampa Copenhagen (supposedly updated to v4) drops my FPS from 50 to 15 with an OCd GTX1070. But 2xSSAA seems fine on my machine. Doesn't look that great but it's still better than 8xMSAA. I suppose I can switch back to 4x after I leave the airport....

 

Edit: Like someone said earlier, it's fine until I turn on all the lights on the runway. With only taxi, anti-collision, wing it's fine

[Anxu00 176]

2 hours ago, andreh said:

With only taxi, anti-collision, wing it's fine

Probably because those are not using DL, which would make sense, as the light output from those do not reach the ground.