I am back on AVSIM seeking the desire...

[Oscar Pilote 22]

Dear Brian,

It is a bit unpleasant to tell but you seem not to be aware of this other project which is also based on NAIP imagery and 10m elevation data.

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/36327-us-orthophotos/

That one is not concerned with the overlay part though, so if the commercial nature is important to you it is probably a safer bet to focus on trees (which is a very nice project per se)

[brianbash 26]

Oscar,

Well, I have actually shared words with Mr. Fork. At first, I was in his corner against the many posters on the orthophoto thread after he had disappeared for some time leaving many angry. Feel free to search for my post history on the .org.

Also, NAIP images are permissive free copyright. I have now acquired 6 years worth of Ortho's for 38 states and a toolbox consisting of professionally licensed software and Meshtool for the build. I have also mailed a hard-drive with my LLC's name on it to myself for time-dating reasons. There are many types of soda aren't there? So no, I am not concerned by your statement, especially considering any money is for my non-profit called "Dreamflight Foundation." Imagine make-a-wish foundation with a set of wings.

In my 35 years I have seen the awe of aviation turn into the gloom of a bus ride. People don't seem to talk much anymore. 20 years ago I would get on the internet to get away from the world. Nowadays, it seems to be quite the opposite. I've always enjoyed bringing a smile to a face in need, why not make myself useful and do my best to bring some tired soul a moment of happiness? I've got the license, I've got the plane, just need some promo funding from good hearts.  

People like to look down into their cellphones for happiness. They like to argue and fight from behind a keyboard. I have no interest in doing so.

I also am not using Ortho4XP or ForkBoy's script that he stated I would need to download the NAIP photos.

So, does that cover everything? Great. Thanks for your words of encouragement.

 

BTW, Cute statement saying I should focus on my tree project. I figured you guys would pop up at some point with words of discouragement. 

[Oscar Pilote 22]

Dear Brian,

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I truly thought you were not aware of that project, I am reading the forums (only very occasionally for avsim) for but not to the point to know every one and I don't remember having read from you already. Perhaps for the same reason I don't understand the meaning of your sentence about the posters and Forkboy2 disappearing (?). It probably doesn't matter. What I meant was that if people have the choice between a free and a paid version of "roughly" the same product (if you make that incorrect that's perfect! but I was told Forkboy2's work is high quality too) chances are they will go for the free version.

The tree project encouragement was not fake, to my opinion this is one of the few points where X-Plane is really lagging behind (although I have nothing to compare it with).

Again my apologies if you had the impression I wanted to discourage you, it was not my intention at all.  If your signature is correct and you come to Fontainebleau, I'll be glad to share a bouldering session, the best season just started (and mushrooms too :-) 

Cheers

 

 

[tonywob 4,768]

On 10/20/2017 at 5:58 PM, brianbash said:

BTW, Cute statement saying I should focus on my tree project. I figured you guys would pop up at some point with words of discouragement. 

I think perhaps you're being too sensitive about this. It's not discouragement, but rather encouragement/advise on what is actually needed. Given there is a free and creating your own orthos is trivial these days, creating a paid version using the same imagery already available for free is wasted effort on your part. What many people don't like about orthos are the fact that they are flat, and adding correct treescapes for orthos for the entire US would be a game changer if someone has the time, data and patience to do it :)

 

 

[brianbash 26]

12 hours ago, tonywob said:

I think perhaps you're being too sensitive about this. It's not discouragement, but rather encouragement/advise on what is actually needed. Given there is a free and creating your own orthos is trivial these days, creating a paid version using the same imagery already available for free is wasted effort on your part. What many people don't like about orthos are the fact that they are flat, and adding correct treescapes for orthos for the entire US would be a game changer if someone has the time, data and patience to do it :)

 

 

Maybe I am being too sensitive, but this isn't a drag and drop effort to make photo tiles. Not sure if many know of this, but tiles that are downloaded are locked to a size restraint. For example, the largest size of any tile that can be downloaded from Google is 1024x1024. That's it. I've found this out a couple a of ways, mainly 

1) If I wish to export my work in a format specifically for Google Tiles, I need to select the Zoom Level and the size. I am given 3 choices. 256x256, 512x512, 1024x1024. This was confirmed when I tried to substitute my G2XPL scenery with my 4096x4096 tiles. I thought "maybe they will line up" or whatever. Just teaching myself how this stuff is built if you will. Low and behold, my tiles were stretched out 4X their size. So, even though G2XPL has 4096 at the end of the file name, it's really just a 1024x1024 image that has been blown up. That equals a degrade in quality.

I will also offer multiple sets for one to choose at there will. Not only the most recent photos, but photos from the previous 3 years. They are all quite different and give a completely different feel in the simulation. One pre-winter, one post-winter.

Treeline data is a game changer huh? Well buckle up, I don't only have treelines, I've got man-made structures, cemeteries, malls, schools, banks, office buildings, sporting arenas, roads, trails, waterways, wetlands, subdivisions, quarries....for...I don't know I don't feel like counting right now...and not only the USA. How bout some screenshots?

And a video to solidify the deal...to bring a personal connection into the whole thing. 

https://www.youtube.com/XjdsC5ep76E

 

Actually, I'm glad you responded because we need to chat. You are a true hero in my eyes and none of this would be possible without your tool. I would like to make sure you're fairly compensated for any sales made.

 

Now, back to work. In MeshTool's readme it has this one bit about orthophoto burning, It states I can use the line "ORTHOPHOTO 0 -72.0 42.0 -71.0 42.0 -71.0 43.0 -72.0 43.0 foo.ter" which will cover a entire tile with an orthophoto. I am going to try just that. Hopefully it works and we can say goodbye to 150,000 texture files.

 

Thanks,

Bash

[tonywob 4,768]

Brian, yes I've found the X-Plane development community unfriendly in most cases (there are exceptions). I also agree about your comments about escaping the Internet . I've tried for years to get people working on objects, scenery and maps as a team effort but it never happens (There are little bits of hope now and then, but nothing ever materialises). The reason in my eyes is simple, people want recognition for their work, and working with someone else defeats that purpose. I've had people donate stuff and then demand it back etc, I gave up and moved on to become "self-sufficient" as I call it.

Regarding image tiles, maximum is 4096x4096. You'll probably need to use arcgis or some GDAL script to join and clip up tiles, although I've never used meshtool to make orthos (I used it only for Norway Pro), I think it does that for you given a geotiff. A ZL17 tile at around 35 degrees latitude will require approximately 450 images, and that number will rise as you head further north or south of the equator (or shrink as you head to the equator). You should certainly consider Ortho4XP, but you will likely need to know how to make code changes for it to use your images.

For Conneticut and New York state, does your source have summer textures, because all the ones I found where in winter, which made the treetool I had struggle (You can't generate trees from dead trees :-)). That would be cool if they do, because the area looks so ugly with the orthos I have.

3 hours ago, brianbash said:

Actually, I'm glad you responded because we need to chat. You are a true hero in my eyes and none of this would be possible without your tool. I would like to make sure you're fairly compensated for any sales made.

Whilst I really appreciate this, please note that W2XP can not be used commercially and I have had this in the license clause since day one (Please contact me via PM if you want to discuss this or anything else further). You will also find the same license for most libraries it uses, e.g. OpenSceneryX, R2, etc. so you'll need to get their permission. Yes, I might be putting a downer on things for you here, but it's better to be prepar3d for this if you haven't checked this already. I have continued to develop W2XP and my own libraries but never released them because I have found certain airport developers using my models and program without permisson in payware sceneries, which is really out of order and shows why I have a growing sour-taste for the XP development community. I have absolutely no problem with people using W2XP in freeware sceneries.

The W2XP version I now have is capable of doing much more than the old 0.7.4 version, including using Shapefiles, PostGIS data, scripts, reprojecting, autogen, tracing raster data and maps, tree generation, etc. You can see an example of what I was working on here for California (which used the orthos to generate the trees without relying on third-party data). In reality, I want to improve this by using the USGS landclass data to get the vegetation types correct, and I'm currently trying this in New Zealand.

 

[brianbash 26]

41 minutes ago, tonywob said:

Brian, yes I've found the X-Plane development community unfriendly in most cases (there are exceptions). I also agree about your comments about escaping the Internet . I've tried for years to get people working on objects, scenery and maps as a team effort but it never happens (There are little bits of hope now and then, but nothing ever materialises). The reason in my eyes is simple, people want recognition for their work, and working with someone else defeats that purpose. I've had people donate stuff and then demand it back etc, I gave up and moved on to become "self-sufficient" as I call it.

Regarding image tiles, maximum is 4096x4096. You'll probably need to use arcgis or some GDAL script to join and clip up tiles, although I've never used meshtool to make orthos (I used it only for Norway Pro), I think it does that for you given a geotiff. A ZL17 tile at around 35 degrees latitude will require approximately 450 images, and that number will rise as you head further north or south of the equator (or shrink as you head to the equator). You should certainly consider Ortho4XP, but you will likely need to know how to make code changes for it to use your images.

For Conneticut and New York state, does your source have summer textures, because all the ones I found where in winter, which made the treetool I had struggle (You can't generate trees from dead trees :-)). That would be cool if they do, because the area looks so ugly with the orthos I have.

Whilst I really appreciate this, please note that W2XP can not be used commercially and I have had this in the license clause since day one (Please contact me via PM if you want to discuss this or anything else further). You will also find the same license for most libraries it uses, e.g. OpenSceneryX, R2, etc. so you'll need to get their permission. Yes, I might be putting a downer on things for you here, but it's better to be prepar3d for this if you haven't checked this already. I have continued to develop W2XP and my own libraries but never released them because I have found certain airport developers using my models and program without permisson in payware sceneries, which is really out of order and shows why I have a growing sour-taste for the XP development community. I have absolutely no problem with people using W2XP in freeware sceneries.

The W2XP version I now have is capable of doing much more than the old 0.7.4 version, including using Shapefiles, PostGIS data, scripts, reprojecting, autogen, tracing raster data and maps, tree generation, etc. You can see an example of what I was working on here for California (which used the orthos to generate the trees without relying on third-party data). In reality, I want to improve this by using the USGS landclass data to get the vegetation types correct, and I'm currently trying this in New Zealand.

 

Hah! Prepar3D...I love it.

 

Lot's to go over but I will just share a couple pics to show the different looks I have available. Lovely Adirondack Regional Airport in Saranac Lake. One look is obviously pre-winter, the other is post-winter.

 

As for the chopping and orthophotos with mesh tool...already handled that situation and it is going just fine.

Ultimately, this is just who I am. I'll make my own library if I must, I'll learn how to do everything with MeshTool eventually if need be, but I will never give up.

 

Totally feel you on the self-sufficient thing. That is why I am working diligently to at least get something in the community gratis, a fire-starter if you will.

 

This has taken a large amount of time to do. All I have right now is time. Single, no kids, no family (well, other than my pets :) and I will not let the unfortunate events that I have endured the past couple years beat me down. I won't get too deep, but I was the victim of a hit-and-run that left me in a coma for 2 weeks 3 years ago. At times, it feels like I have slipped into another dimension...all that I knew changed, seems people didn't feel a need for me anymore. I blame CERN...because...well...why not? :)

 

[Oscar Pilote 22]

15 hours ago, brianbash said:

So, even though G2XPL has 4096 at the end of the file name, it's really just a 1024x1024 image that has been blown up.

Come on... how can you imagine this to be true ? 4K textures are obtained by tiling (16 rows x 16 columns) 256 smaller 256x256 ones (the ones that are downloaded), with no up-sampling of course. 

[brianbash 26]

On 10/24/2017 at 2:34 PM, Oscar Pilote said:

Come on... how can you imagine this to be true ? 4K textures are obtained by tiling (16 rows x 16 columns) 256 smaller 256x256 ones (the ones that are downloaded), with no up-sampling of course. 

Come on Oscar, give me a break bro. I replaced my G2XPL "4096" files with my personal 4096 tiles but they came out 4X larger than the orignal size. So, I thought that's how it went especially considering when trying to export my tiles in a Goggle Mapping format I have 3 choices, 256, 512, 1024. Getting assistance from anybody is a lost cause, but like I said, I will never give up. Hence why I will be using MeshTool to build my treelines. New York state has a whopping 3,415,132 lines of Poly code just for the tree's.  Photo coming soon in this thread if you care.

 

Just a little advice, word your comments in a more neutral tone on a public forum. I've done PR, Production Management and Audio for Ghost B.C., Slipknot and Crystal Castles so I know a little bit about how public image and a product stand side-by-side.