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Ray Proudfoot

Honeycomb Yoke and Throttle news

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Potentiometer....... really ? Forget it.

Bet is has a notch or detent too.

Don't know how they can justify 200 bucks with a Potty.

Think I'll go with a 500 buck pro job. Save money in the long run.

https://word not allowed.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/view-forward.jpg?w=640&h=480

 

And this.... is a mechanism:

https://word not allowed.wordpress.com/pfc-saab-yoke-review/mechanism-general/

 

Mind you these are 1000 US, but there others like the Yoyo at around 500 GBP

https://www.virtual-fly.com/en/shop/controls/yoko

Feels like a real yoke, can be opened, cleaned snd greased, and Hall sensors last forever.

Full metal jacket Baby !

Cannot help feeling it may be a good and prudent investment.

Edited by Gabe777

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Me neither, but the armour does look rather impressive!

70-h_2017.jpg


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3 hours ago, Gabe777 said:

Potentiometer....... really ? Forget it.

Bet is has a notch or detent too.

Don't know how they can justify 200 bucks with a Potty.

Think I'll go with a 500 buck pro job. Save money in the long run.

Yoko and Cirrus look like they may use pots too, but I may be mistaken. Definitely more than 500 though, stating 821.00 € on their website. For that price difference you could replace quite a few pots or just break down and buy hall effect sensors such as http://uk.farnell.com/bi-technologies-tt-electronics/6127v1a180l-5/sensor-hall-0-2v-20v-to-10v-180deg/dp/2319661 or https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/tt-electronics-bi/6127V1A180L.5/987-1387-ND/2620657 and convert it over yourself.

 

 

Edited by Phantoms
  • Upvote 1

James

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What are they suing them for ?     "plan to sue Hall-effect sensors" :blink:


Neil Ward

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If Nicki has decided to use pots rather than Hall-effect sensors I'm sure there's a good reason for it and it probably isn't cost.

Let's not forget there are different qualities of pots with the Saitek ones probably costing $1 per 1000. Cheap and will only last for 5 years or so. I'm pretty certain Honeycomb are not going to compromise the quality of their units with cheap pots.

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Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.2 & v3.4, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 5.2Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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But even using quality pots is still potentially introducing a weak point which would not have been there with hall-effect sensors. A little disappointing if it turns out to be true.


 i7-6700k | Asus Maximus VIII Hero | 16GB RAM | MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X Plus | Samsung Evo 500GB & 1TB | WD Blue 2 x 1TB | EVGA Supernova G2 850W | AOC 2560x1440 monitor | Win 10 Pro 64-bit

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My post yesterday mentioning the use of a slide potentiometer has led to criticism of the design, and that was not my intention.

First of all, FlyHoneycomb has to be commended for posting pictures of their design. Openness is the first step towards thrust. Their design has some real benefits compared to the 'competition' but this has not been taken up by forum users.

Let's have a look at the mechanics. PFC uses linear bearings for the pitch shaft movement, but then abuses these bearings for roll rotation movement. My engineering heart cringes when seeing that. On top of that, they use one bungee for pitch and roll, with force interaction between them.
Yoko yoke has better mechanics than PFC, with roller bearings for the roll rotation, and a linear bearing slide for the pitch travel. However, the roll torque is transferred to a small bearing distance on the linear slide, creating higher forces. Aim should be to have a larger distance between bearing positions. Beneficial in the Yoko yoke is using separate bungees for roll and pitch.

Back to FlyHoneycomb that is the subject of this thread. If you look at the pictures, you can see two linear sliding tracks, not one like on the Yoko yoke. This reduces the bearing forces that I mentioned when describing the Yoko. Together with the roller bearings for the roll rotation, this is a real improvement in this price range of yoke, considering that a normal high price margin leaves little room for parts cost. One comment though: the axial length of the sliding mechanism is quite small. With one hand operation on the yoke handle, I wonder about the forces created in the bearing with pitch and roll movement.

Now back to the potentiometer. I agree with Ray that there is a pot and there is a pot. The Bourns slide potentiometer for the pitch movement which is shown in the picture, PTF01-152A-103B2, is a long life potentiometer. The Bourns datasheet mentions an operational life of 100'000 cycles. That is a different class when compared to cheap noname pots. And a slide pot cannot be a hall potentiometer. Using a slide potentiomer was a design choice. At least, Bourns is a quality brand. 

The main point I wanted to make is that this potentiometer has a travel of 100mm. That would limit pitch travel to 100mm. But the website of FlyHoneycomb mentions a pitch travel of 6" 150mm. And I do not know any brand slide potentiometers with a higher travel range (check mouser and digikey). This is something that FlyHoneycomb has to clarify. I wonder why other forum users did not pick up this point.

And I still wonder how they are going to route the wiring through the shaft. 

Edited by oemlegoem
  • Upvote 1

FlyHirundo Rudder Pedal and Yoke
Designed and manufactured in Switzerland

Email: info@flyhirundo.com
Website: under construction

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8 hours ago, oemlegoem said:

.....

And I still wonder how they are going to route the wiring through the shaft. 

Bluetooth?

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Very little has been announced about the throttle quadrant. Given my Saitek yoke pots are still okay but the throttle ones are failing badly I'd like to know more about the throttle design and construction.

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Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.2 & v3.4, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 5.2Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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21 hours ago, oemlegoem said:

And a slide pot cannot be a hall potentiometer.

No, but there are easy ways to make a hall-effect sensor work with a linear movement. That said, the quadrant is of more interest to me and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they stick with their original plan to use hall-effect sensors there.


 i7-6700k | Asus Maximus VIII Hero | 16GB RAM | MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X Plus | Samsung Evo 500GB & 1TB | WD Blue 2 x 1TB | EVGA Supernova G2 850W | AOC 2560x1440 monitor | Win 10 Pro 64-bit

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My hope is they don't cut too many corners when they switch to production units. That beefy aluminum center looks costly, but I hope it stays.


James

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Does anyone have the dimensions of the yoke and throttle quadrant, i.e. the footprint the units will occupy on your desktop?  Do not see this information on the Honeycomb website.

Thank you.

 

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Another thing that I've just noticed from the image of the yoke internals is that the roll sensor is also a potentiometer - MT/7694N1 OCTR. I know that not all potentiometers are equal but hall-effect sensors will always be the better option - longer life, no wear, no spiking, more stable. It'll be a shame if they've decided to go for pots.


 i7-6700k | Asus Maximus VIII Hero | 16GB RAM | MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X Plus | Samsung Evo 500GB & 1TB | WD Blue 2 x 1TB | EVGA Supernova G2 850W | AOC 2560x1440 monitor | Win 10 Pro 64-bit

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