P3Dv4 Experiencing very poor performance below 30 fps

[Michael Moe 493]

9 minutes ago, somiller said:

Maddog,

I'm curious why you lock 30 fps in the sim if you're using vsync. Doesn't vsync automatically limit fps to refresh rate?

It seems there is no magic answer...and I can guarantee, all the folks that say they're running a config. at 20, or 24, or 25, or 30 hz refresh with vsync and they never have this problem are either not being truthful, or they never fly a situation that takes fps below refresh rate, or they just aren't as picky. ANYTIME fps drops below refresh there will be stutters.

The issue that I see that causes this problem on my system, is when the cpu just can't keep up...when that happens, there will ALWAYS be stutters. It's so easy to configure settings that don't overtax the gpu, but finding a setting that doesn't SOMETIMES overtax cpu is an impossibility for me.

I drink to that. Amen 

Happy flying and cross our fingers. 

Testet alot today with the A320 and its a piece of work but also demanding. 

Thanks Michael Moe 

[gboz 157]

3 hours ago, downscc said:

There is no discernible difference between SSAA and MSAA on a 4K screen.

As a general rule that is just not correct. At any resolution the amount of AA needed will also depend on the size of the monitor. A 28" 4K monitor may need no AA at all where as my 65" 4K definitely needs SSAA.

gb.

[somiller 694]

9 hours ago, downscc said:

Similar here, 4K 60 Hz  no buffering or vsync and locked at 24.  OP dismissed SSAA, which I think should at least try it.  There is no discernible difference between SSAA and MSAA on a 4K screen.

OP didn't dismiss SSAA 4k...OP is not using a 4k screen. In my experience with 1080p, and 1440p the difference in view quality between 4x SSAA and 8x MSAA is huge. Anyway, I expect it's a moot point, because I doubt the OP is dealing with gpu saturation, it's more likely a cpu bottleneck, and that won't be helped one iota by switching to MSAA, even if using Dynamic Lighting. As OP is using a GTX 1070, I'm guessing he's running about 40%-60% gpu utilization, and it really never goes below or above. I would also guess that if he looks at cpu utilization, core0 is very high, maybe even pegged at 100% and cores1-7 vary between almost no use, spiking sometimes up to 100%. There are only two solutions...more powerful cpu, or lower settings. Cloud shadows, very high water settings, high autogen settings are some of the big cpu hitters...sure I'm missing some.

[somiller 694]

Maddog,

Two things to consider:

1.) we have very similar pc specs and I run autogen at about 50% instead of 75%

2.) make sure you're NOT selecting the high res texture box, and also using TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP=10 - that will crush your cpu and gpu and will probably exceed gpu memory.

Trying to compare performance between FSX and P3D is a bit of a fools errand, as P3Dv4 LOD is much higher at similar graphics settings.

[Riah069 157]

Sorry guys i dont mean to stupid. But i see alot of talk about people using 4k monitors etc and using vsync at 25-30hz how is this achieved getting this 25-30hz?

 

Regards

Mike

[Anxu00 176]

On 10/17/2017 at 3:12 PM, MadDog said:

Do folks really just silently endure the jerkiness when the frames drop?

Yes they do.  The problem you saw also showed up with very high end machine.  Rob A. has detailed explanation about this in his guide.  The only way to have stutter free Sim with P3D is to be able to generate FPS at always higher than your monitor refresh rate.  My monitor refresh rate is not changeable, so I just have to ignore the stutters.  If you are a purist and are only into operating the airplanes and not using super detailed sceneries, then your FPS will likely remain high enough to minimize the stutters.

[gboz 157]

11 hours ago, Riah069 said:

Sorry guys i dont mean to stupid. But i see alot of talk about people using 4k monitors etc and using vsync at 25-30hz how is this achieved getting this 25-30hz?

 

Regards

Mike

If you are lucky setting a low refresh rate (20~30) is an option in the nvidia control panel "set resolution" tab. Then just have vsync on in the sim.

gb.

[MadDog 353]

On 10/20/2017 at 5:20 PM, somiller said:

I'm curious why you lock 30 fps in the sim if you're using vsync. Doesn't vsync automatically limit fps to refresh rate?

I lock internally at 30 fps for two reasons:

1. On my system, it is a little bit more fluid than unlimited. Admittedly, the difference is very subtle; but at 30 fps using a 30 Hz refresh, the sim is glass smooth (as long as the system isn't being overtaxed).

2. The main reason is that texture and object loading can be much slower when running unlimited.  Here is an example:  Load up default P3D with the F22 at KNPA with the "Grey and Rainy" weather scenario at unlimited.  Depart and turn northbound.  After the turn, stay low (skimming the treetops) and open full throttle (100% afterburners).  The aircraft will accelerate to over 1150 knots (not realistic; but fun!).  With high enough settings (about a notch below max) on most sliders, I will usually outrun all of my autogen within about a minute.  When doing the same thing with a 30 fps lock, performance stays the same; but the autogen and texture loading do not fall behind.

[MadDog 353]

On 10/20/2017 at 5:20 PM, somiller said:

It's so easy to configure settings that don't overtax the gpu, but finding a setting that doesn't SOMETIMES overtax cpu is an impossibility for me.

So true !!!  This is exactly why I am very hesitant to totally switch from FSX to Prepar3D.  The prospect of 64-bits kind of loses its appeal when the sim starts choking on the extra add-ons it was supposedly designed to facilitate.  If hardware doesn't make a giant leap forward, I believe it will get even worse over time... people already seem to be getting a reality check with FSL A320.  With that said, if I can find a sweet spot that balances performance with visuals, I'll stick with Prepar3D... unfortunately, that combination of settings is still alluding me at the moment.

[somiller 694]

2 hours ago, MadDog said:

So true !!!  This is exactly why I am very hesitant to totally switch from FSX to Prepar3D.  The prospect of 64-bits kind of loses its appeal when the sim starts choking on the extra add-ons it was supposedly designed to facilitate.  If hardware doesn't make a giant leap forward, I believe it will get even worse over time... people already seem to be getting a reality check with FSL A320.  With that said, if I can find a sweet spot that balances performance with visuals, I'll stick with Prepar3D... unfortunately, that combination of settings is still alluding me at the moment.

MadDog,

Here is a thread you might find interesting. Deals with some of the issues we see with texture loading, and the timing, or rather the distance at which airports load.

 

[gboz 157]

20 hours ago, MadDog said:

2. The main reason is that texture and object loading can be much slower when running unlimited.  Here is an example:  Load up default P3D with the F22 at KNPA with the "Grey and Rainy" weather scenario at unlimited.  Depart and turn northbound.  After the turn, stay low (skimming the treetops) and open full throttle (100% afterburners).  The aircraft will accelerate to over 1150 knots (not realistic; but fun!).  With high enough settings (about a notch below max) on most sliders, I will usually outrun all of my autogen within about a minute.  When doing the same thing with a 30 fps lock, performance stays the same; but the autogen and texture loading do not fall behind.

Hmmmm... this must be a case of YMMV since I found the reverse.
I ran your two scenarios a few times and 30Hz/Vsync/Unlimited always gave better autogen loading than 30Hz/Vsync/Locked at 30. Sometimes significantly better.

 

21 hours ago, MadDog said:

When doing the same thing with a 30 fps lock, performance stays the same; but the autogen and texture loading do not fall behind.

Are you saying you never outrun the autogen with this setting, even after say 10 minutes?

gb.

[MadDog 353]

2 hours ago, gboz said:

Are you saying you never outrun the autogen with this setting, even after say 10 minutes?

Yes... although 10 minutes may be pushing it since the F22 will usually run out of fuel in that amount of time using full afterburner .  I find it very interesting that you found the opposite... it seems intuitive that internally restricting frames would naturally give the sim more time for other tasks such as scenery and texture loading.  It's very strange how different systems can produce such drastically different results.

[somiller 694]

21 minutes ago, MadDog said:

Yes... although 10 minutes may be pushing it since the F22 will usually run out of fuel in that amount of time using full afterburner .  I find it very interesting that you found the opposite... it seems intuitive that internally restricting frames would naturally give the sim more time for other tasks such as scenery and texture loading.  It's very strange how different systems can produce such drastically different results.

I was also under the impression that fps lock in P3D helps off-load cpu. As long as cpu has excess capacity at a given fps lock, it makes sense that texture loading should not lag. I run a G-sync monitor, and I lock fps for this very reason.

At the same time, I was also under the impression that vsync lock at 30hz essentially does the same thing, and makes fps lock in P3D redundant.

I wonder if your different experiences have anything to do with differences in cpu configuration...ex.: HT on vs HT off, or different affinities.

[sidfadc 1,340]

Sorry to dig up this thread but I am suffering from the same issues as the OP with an identical setup although my CPU runs at 4.4.  I have FPS locked at 30 and when I can maintain that it’s smooth and stutter free, trouble is I can never maintain 30 coming into a detailed payware airport where the FPS drops to 20-22.  At this point the sim stutters and freezes momentarily.  Really annoying...

I have tried every combination going using AM, locked FPS, not locked, VSYNC ON OFF.  It all boils down to the fact my system can’t maintain 30 FPS on approach into payware sceneries.  I run moderate sliders and it seems no matter if I drop back further my system can’t maintain 30FPS.

My FPS used to drop in FSX but it didn’t stutter like it does now.  Monitoring my CPU I can see a spike of 100% on multiple cores at the point my sim splutters, FPS drops to like 2 and then back to 20.  It’s really annoying on final and I'm now fed up of tweaking to resolve, been at it for weeks.

I've resigned myself to the fact I must be CPU bottlenecked or never fly into detailed regions with payware aircraft.

I would really like to hear from you guys who can maintain 30 FPS into detailed payware scenery using say the NGX or FSlabs.  Please tell me what CPU you are using because I'm due a PC upgrade soon.

Cheers

 

 

[GSalden 4,655]

Lock it at 20 and keep your monitor at 60 hrtz...

Or use Uimited with Vsync + TB , monitor at 60 hrtz and use an external limiter , If you don’t suffer from blurries.

DxTory is the best imho. Last tab is its limiter at the bottom. The trial version is good enough as after the trial the limiter keeps working. Try with 20 and 21.