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mattyshigh

Seriously considering going VR?

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Just Flight Beta Tester
 
We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
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On 2/6/2018 at 1:56 PM, Old git said:

Hello, I am TOTALLY new to all this ,and being very old, am confused . I have some flying experience and am only interested in realistic flight sim (ie no interest in playing games). I would very much appreciate some advice on hardware . I had thought of VR and was going towards spending £3000 -4000 on a PC and Oculus.  I notice the concerns about VR having low resolution and perhaps feeling uncomfortable after a short time, so a large monitor would be a sensible addition . However I am also tempted instead to go for a gaming laptop (Asus Zephyrus?) which has the power to easily cope with VR and would be more socially acceptable at other times  (I could have a quick -non VR -flight at the coffee table while wife watching tv). Obviously this would mean accepting a small screen....is that a compromise too far ?  Any thoughts ?

..seating next to a coffee table with laptop on your laps, well, IMHO it's a game not a serious simming, and for this all you need nice Android or iPhone set of VR Headset & basic controllers, download any aircraft you wish to fly and, "Voila" you ready to fly ..for real Simming A. You need to set up heading and to decides whether you going with VR or you stick with 2D, & base on the initial decision allocating the funds you wish to spend.

It's clear to me that VR is the future, though still in its infancy, & pose lot of challenges to developers, & Simmmers, it is constantly evolving, and improving, almost, on a daily base.  I, personally, trying to integrate between the 2 "Worlds"  Headset (VR-1000 by HP) on my head and all Flight controllers Switches/ Knobs buttons in my hands / fit & fingers, & the immersion is superb .... 

Cheers

 

Yair    

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@HiFlyer,

     The Pimax 8K video is helpful somewhat but as you can imagine, we need a through the headset video like that with an actual flightsim like P3D or AFS2 - plus we need a variety of SuperSampling levels being utilized. The text in the above video seems "smudged" but I didn't see Screen Door much. However, we just don't know what the video camera might have done to change what we would actually see. It would be real nice if we could develop a flightsim VR benchmark that we could all report on with respect to video quality - like how close from the eyepoint to the instrument in millimeters must I be for the AFS2 A320 ADI in order to read the speed or altitude easily. I realize that is subjective but maybe we can dream up something. In addition to SuperSampling values, the Antialiasing setting is also a variable for image clarity. 

     I am VR flying the VRS F-18 now with Native VR P3Dv4.2  in the north Oahu (Kaneohe) area (photoreal scenery) and using TacPack and CCP to make a Nimitz task force with TU-95 aircraft  formations flying around as bad guys along with some SAMs. Catapulting off the deck and dealing with the targets is really challenging and I am amazed that with 2xSSAA and SuperSampling at 1.5 using my old DK2, that I can read the instruments just fine since they are close anyways and that it would just be better with a bit more resolution and less screendoor but still very "real" as is. Frame rates (fluidity in VR) is really good as well.

 

Dave W.

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PC=9700K@5Ghz+RTX2070  VR=HP Reverb|   Software = Windows 10 | Flight SIms = P3D, CAP2, DCS World, IL-2,  Aerofly FS2

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I have the Oculus Rift, It actually works best in DCS World I feel, but works very well in X-Plane 11.

However, I do find that it is not tactile, it's hard to select radio frequencies etc. I have found myself using a 48" screen, as I want to use buttons for radios etc. 

Although its great if you use the HOTAS system.

Does anyone else find this issue with VR?

 

:  )

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It depends on the sim. Some are more tactile through the use of haptics while making selections.


Just Flight Beta Tester
 
We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i7 8700K @ 5.0GHz / 32.0GB G.SKILL TridentZ Series Dual-Channel Ram / ZOTAC GAMING GeForce® RTX 2080 Ti Triple Fan / Sound Blaster Z / Oculus Rift VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 2x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 1x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1000GB / 5 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity each / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5 Motherboard

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My two cents i have the rift and i really like it. i agree with the res issues not great but i use it more at the start and end of flight to save on eye strain, also set up flight in 2D.

Shafs

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Guest

Yesterday, I flew the PMDG 777 gate to gate from FT CYYZ to FSDT KJFK. Basically up and down. ORBX Global, Vector and OpenLC in the mix too. And of course DD NYC and Active Sky. In reality I was sitting at my dinning room table with my Microsoft sidewinder forced feedback 2 in front of me. But I didn't know that! As far as I was concerned I was sitting in the captains seat of a Boeing 777. Sure I was the invisible man too but that didn't seem to mater in this world. The FO was invisible too.

During the decent I got up and stood behind the radio panel with my hand on the back of the captains chair to steady myself and stretched my legs. The view was totally realistic. I never took my Samsung Odyssey+ of my head the whole flight.

It's strange that visual quality issues that would be unacceptable on a monitor are, although undesirable, are not a deal breaker in VR. For this flight I really stretched my system. Most of the flight I saw 20fps! Supposedly, that's not remotely sufficient for an immersive VR experience. I beg to differ. It was satisfactorily smooth.

Definitely, the most compelling flight sim experience I have ever had. Especially getting up and walking around the fight deck!

To my surprise it has been the case that my i7 4770k at 4.8ghz is getting hammered but my 980ti is purring along happily at about 60 to 80% using about 5gb of its 6gb of VRAM.

I have been considering a GPU upgrade lately but it would seem that would have been a mistake. I'm looking at CPU's now.

I used an app called FPSvr which is invaluable to see what your system is doing if you are using WMR.

The image quality in any VR headset is going to be obviously inferior to a 4K monitor. And on the same settings with the same hardware the frame rate will be lower in VR than it will be on a monitor. But in my opinion VR is the way to go. And I'll give my endorsement to the Samsung Odyssey+. The caveat is that I haven't experienced any of the other options.

It can be frustrating getting familiar with the ins and outs of it. But I have a pretty good handle on it now after a few weeks. There are still a few annoyances but I'm never going back to pancake land!🤣

Edited by Guest

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I also stepped up for VR Flightsim after 5 years of Nvidia 3DVision in FSX and due to the lack of Vision 3D drivers in Prepar3d, I placed a online bet on a second hand Samsung Odyssey (The older version 1) and collected it so yesterday I made my first VR Flightsim flight in P3DV4 and beautiful Aerofly 2 and yes, The experience and immersion factor is awesome and comes very close to real flying BUT unfortunately I have to put the Odyssey back on sale because the quality of the screen in terms of Screen-door effect and lack of sharpness is even in these Odessey 1 with similar lenses as the Vive pro in one word... BAD...

For me it's compared as watching a old VHS Camcorder movie on a big modern HD TV.

As soon as they can deliver the screen/picture quality you see on a old fashion (Ahum) 1920x1080 HD  in the headset, I'm in the market again for VR.

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

 

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18 minutes ago, simba_nl said:

I also stepped up for VR Flightsim after 5 years of Nvidia 3DVision in FSX and due to the lack of Vision 3D drivers in Prepar3d, I placed a online bet on a second hand Samsung Odyssey (The older version 1) and collected it so yesterday I made my first VR Flightsim flight in P3DV4 and beautiful Aerofly 2 and yes, The experience and immersion factor is awesome and comes very close to real flying BUT unfortunately I have to put the Odyssey back on sale because the quality of the screen in terms of Screen-door effect and lack of sharpness is even in these Odessey 1 with similar lenses as the Vive pro in one word... BAD...

For me it's compared as watching a old VHS Camcorder movie on a big modern HD TV.

As soon as they can deliver the screen/picture quality you see on a old fashion (Ahum) 1920x1080 HD  in the headset, I'm in the market again for VR.

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

 

With only one day of use, it seems unlikely that you could have tried all the settings to mitigate the SDE.

Did you change your steam ss settings at all? (1.40 matches the HMD's native resolution)


Just Flight Beta Tester
 
We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i7 8700K @ 5.0GHz / 32.0GB G.SKILL TridentZ Series Dual-Channel Ram / ZOTAC GAMING GeForce® RTX 2080 Ti Triple Fan / Sound Blaster Z / Oculus Rift VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 2x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 1x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1000GB / 5 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity each / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5 Motherboard

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20 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

With only one day of use, it seems unlikely that you could have tried all the settings to mitigate the SDE.

Did you change your steam ss settings at all? (1.40 matches the HMD's native resolution)

I did a lot of reading before i was making the buy and saw a lot of posts (also from you) to get familiar with the ins and outs and collected me a license for Aerofly for use as a reference and guideline for getting the best out of it. I already found the so called "sweetspot" Played with the settings in SteamVR for the resolutions and SS and I think I have the best out of it now. In Aerofly I can run all at the max without any stutter or glitches and can even crank op in the Aerofly VR setting to 1,5 with my basic VR GPU (a 1060GTX) and CPU wise I am running on a 7 years old i7 2600K with 16Gb at 4,5 Ghz and these old lady give me also a steady 30 fps in P3dV4 so I think I pressed all the juice out of the VR possibilities with the Odessey right now.

I think that my graphical VR expectation is much to high for the moment and hope that we can buy in the not so far future a headset with comparable graphics as a normal 1920x1080 monitor to enjoy the beautiful planes and scenery's that we already have. I have read from a fellow simmer who was saying, Never go back to pancake land and I agree. The immersion, the feeling etc. in VR is like real world flying a plane and the way to go for the future.

Thanks for your contribution in a lot of forums to advice the people and promoting VR flightsimming,

Edited by simba_nl

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2 hours ago, simba_nl said:

I did a lot of reading before i was making the buy and saw a lot of posts (also from you) to get familiar with the ins and outs and collected me a license for Aerofly for use as a reference and guideline for getting the best out of it. I already found the so called "sweetspot" Played with the settings in SteamVR for the resolutions and SS and I think I have the best out of it now. In Aerofly I can run all at the max without any stutter or glitches and can even crank op in the Aerofly VR setting to 1,5 with my basic VR GPU (a 1060GTX) and CPU wise I am running on a 7 years old i7 2600K with 16Gb at 4,5 Ghz and these old lady give me also a steady 30 fps in P3dV4 so I think I pressed all the juice out of the VR possibilities with the Odessey right now.

I think that my graphical VR expectation is much to high for the moment and hope that we can buy in the not so far future a headset with comparable graphics as a normal 1920x1080 monitor to enjoy the beautiful planes and scenery's that we already have. I have read from a fellow simmer who was saying, Never go back to pancake land and I agree. The immersion, the feeling etc. in VR is like real world flying a plane and the way to go for the future.

Thanks for your contribution in a lot of forums to advice the people and promoting VR flightsimming,

...no doub,t the immersion on VR is second to non but the key to the VR are the Headset, as we use 4K & not 8K there is not much we can expect, IMHO, investing & upgrading your other components, well, it is nice, and for sure enhance you 2 D experience, but the addon value to VR performance & quality is minor and do not justify the $$$$$$.

 

Cheers

 

Yair    

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Hi all, lots of good advice in this thread.

I've started another thread asking for advice on the best sim to use to teach my 13 year-old son to fly with VR. Rather than cross-posting I'll just post a list here, if anybody has any advice on this topic it will be greatly appreciated! 

 

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I recently thought I was ready to jump into the VR realm until I spent some quality time in P3D and IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad/Flying Circus using a friend's computer with his HTC Vive Pro driven by a 1080.  Here are my take-aways:

1. Just can't get past the overall blurry/fuzziness of the cockpit's instrument panel in VR.  Sure, you can zoom in but I never need to do that when my 25" 2K monitor whose display is always razor sharp with zero jaggies.

2. Just can't get past having to always deal with the "sweet spot".  If you use progressive eyeglass lenses, you know what the sweets spot effect is.  To see something in focus, you must look directly at it; using your eyes to scan off the center axis produces blurry, out of focus images.  Again, not an issue with my 2K monitor.

3.  Maybe I can get past the overall softer focus of everything else, but still a huge step back from my 2K monitor.

I guess the huge bummer for me is that the VR experience is so compelling and very immersive, but my above issues keep me away considering the buy-in cost.  If such a VR setup could be had for free, I'd definitely use it regularly, but not all the time.  The HUGE difference is flight combat in IL-2: having the VR effect greatly improves my gunnery skills.  It is so much more effective following your bullets while they track into your target.  This alone has become my #1 pull for VR, but again IMO not worth the cost of admission, especially considering all the other shortfalls.  I am happy for all who enjoy the VR experience in FS, and I hope someday the tech will overcome my above shortfalls while becoming within limits of what I can afford, say around $1.5k total for both a VR HDM and a gcard which will drive it well.

Edited by TheFamilyMan
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Rod O.

i7 10700k @5.0, Asus ROG Maximus XII Hero, G.Skill 2x16GB DDR4 4000 cas 16, EVGA GTX 1070 SC, Noctua NH-D15S, Thermaltake GF1 850W PSU, WD Black SN750 M.2 1T (x2), Fractal Design Focus G Case

Win 10 Pro 64, Asus 25" IPS 2K 60Hz monitor

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Not all headsets are the same, especially now.


Just Flight Beta Tester
 
We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i7 8700K @ 5.0GHz / 32.0GB G.SKILL TridentZ Series Dual-Channel Ram / ZOTAC GAMING GeForce® RTX 2080 Ti Triple Fan / Sound Blaster Z / Oculus Rift VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 2x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 1x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1000GB / 5 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity each / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5 Motherboard

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Not the same, but not a whole lot different either:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=6NlDaam6izM

If anything, it's a good idea before spending $$$ on a VR HDM to know what to expect.    I definitely want this tech, but not with the current state of its limitations (but hey, that's only me and I'm only sharing my experiences).  BTW, I did everything to make sure I had that Vive Pro dialed in for my eyes; my friend insisted on that.

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Rod O.

i7 10700k @5.0, Asus ROG Maximus XII Hero, G.Skill 2x16GB DDR4 4000 cas 16, EVGA GTX 1070 SC, Noctua NH-D15S, Thermaltake GF1 850W PSU, WD Black SN750 M.2 1T (x2), Fractal Design Focus G Case

Win 10 Pro 64, Asus 25" IPS 2K 60Hz monitor

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