PARK BRAKE CREEP

[SO666 4]

Hi.

I have during engine warm up on the DC-6 severe parkbrake creep , it moves forward by as much as half the distance between the nose and main wheels , during every startup at 1000rpm .

I put a ticket in , but PMDG say they only get a small creep and have had no reports of this issue from anyone .

My sim is FSX+ACCELERATION .

I know a friend who has the same problem in P3DV3 .

All those who suffer this same issue please add your name to this post and the sim you are using and amount of creep you have.

If a lot of you suffer from this they may look into it further , else they may just brush this issue under the carpet.

regards alan cottrill.

[metzgergva 28]

Alan, the slow creep is a well known phenomena. It is more pronounced on prop aircraft as they produce substantial forward force at low power settings. Parking brake uses maximum brake force and we cannot put more than that.

I know that there are tweaks and software that changes friction model of FS, maybe you use one of them.

[SO666 4]

Hi.

Please do not respond in this manor , stick to the problem ,and  report amount of creep and sim used , so a possible workaround for a fix could be looked into , if creep very bad  like mine IS , yes i know the sim as a problem in this area and a small creep is about normal , mine is too much , this is what i am trying to astablish here , to see what sims and how bad this issue is on the DC-6 .

regards alan cottrill.

[Dick 47]

7 minutes ago, SO666 said:

Please do not respond in this manor

Alan, you are aware that Alexander is the flight dynamics engineer from PMDG  for the DC-6 ?

 

b rdgs / Dick Knight

-

 

[scandinavian13 5,192]

54 minutes ago, SO666 said:

Please do not respond in this manor , stick to the problem ,and  report amount of creep and sim used , so a possible workaround for a fix could be looked into , if creep very bad  like mine IS , yes i know the sim as a problem in this area and a small creep is about normal , mine is too much , this is what i am trying to astablish here , to see what sims and how bad this issue is on the DC-6 .

Alan,

Please do not respond in your own manner here. You're taking a shot at the person who created the flight dynamics of the 6, who was actually attempting to point you in a direction to look into, but you're so stuck on the idea that it is of our doing that you're blind to the idea that it is unique to your (and your friend's) sim.

So, instead of insisting it is our problem to fix - which, who knows, it may well be - please be open to the idea (and likelihood) that it is local to your machine. Statistically, if this were a code-side (PMDG) problem, you'd see many more reports of this in the forum and in the support queue. This is not the case. So, to get us on track here...Alexander mentioned that it may be caused by tweaks made to your sim. Please let us know if you are using any of these, or hardware brakes, or FSUIPC to alter/edit/tweak/calibrate/assign any axes.

There is literally no point in coming here to blindly point a finger. This is a discussion forum, and not a tribunal. If you've already made up your mind that it is our problem to fix, and will not be receptive to any counterpoints, then you might want to save all of our time and simply rest on your assertion. Or you can choose to participate here to help us determine where the issue lies.

[SO666 4]

Hi.

First off it was not made clear to me , that Alexander M. Metzger was a PMDG representative , secondly i am open to finding this problem , and was hoping by the answers given by others , if some common denominator of the problem could be found ..

Yes i do use FSUIPC to set my controls up , as it gives greater options than FSX controls .

Also i found a freeware file yeterday that seems to fix this problem , how its done i dont know , but if PMDG know of the sims shortfall , to overcome this is it posible to make some kind of gauge for the dc-6 that can give a stronger parkbrake , to stop this creep , which on my sim is very excessive , and spoiling my experience of this aircraft.

Xplane users may not have this problem which this aircraft was originally made for , and therefore only give problems in the P3DV3/4 and FSX users more so if FSUIPC  is used , but i did not get a satisfactory reply to this problem regarding the ticket sent.hence this post to see how many have this bad parkbrake issue

regards alan cottrill.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

3 minutes ago, SO666 said:

Yes i do use FSUIPC to set my controls up , as it gives greater options than FSX controls .

See, stuff like this is useful to us to help us help you. Instead, so far, the only thing I've gotten from you is "this is PMDG's problem," when, statistically, you're the only one I'm aware of with the problem, so it's not looking like it's our issue.

Move the FSUIPC.ini out of the <sim>\modules folder temporarily to let it rebuild. This will eliminate any issues FSUIPC brings into the mix.

5 minutes ago, SO666 said:

Also i found a freeware file yeterday that seems to fix this problem , how its done i dont know , but if PMDG know of the sims shortfall , to overcome this is it posible to make some kind of gauge for the dc-6 that can give a stronger parkbrake , to stop this creep , which on my sim is very excessive , and spoiling my experience of this aircraft.

We actually have a pretty comprehensive ground contact model in the DC-6, so, while you may feel like it's a simple thing to just fix, it isn't, and we have worked very intensively to sidestep the shortcomings of the sim.

6 minutes ago, SO666 said:

more so if FSUIPC  is used

"[M]ore so if FSUIPC is used." One may want to have a look into this idea, instead of pointing solely at it being our problem, despite evidence to the contrary.

7 minutes ago, SO666 said:

but i did not get a satisfactory reply to this problem regarding the ticket sent.hence this post to see how many have this bad parkbrake issue

This is understandable. Do keep in mind, I didn't say "don't post your issue," or that you were wrong in soliciting extra opinions/experiences. All I said was that you seem to be pretty set on this being caused by us, despite evidence to the contrary. Troubleshooting and fixes don't come from simply pointing and saying "this is your issue."

Troubleshooting and fixes come from you volunteering as much information as possible so that we can get an idea of why it seems out of sorts to you. We don't see it because our computers and setups are not yours. We can't read minds, and we don't have access to your computer, so...help us help you...

[SO666 4]

Hi.

When i sent in a ticket , you PMDG looked into it and reported it could not be reproduced your end  FAIR COMMENT , but i was never asked to supply more info like how are my controls set up , ie in FSX or FSUIPC , had i been asked for more info , in order to get to the cause of this issue i would have done so  , which would help you to maybe recreate the issue, and then  given advice by you on where to look for this issue , in the hope of fixing it .

regards alan cottrill.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

29 minutes ago, SO666 said:

When i sent in a ticket , you PMDG looked into it and reported it could not be reproduced your end  FAIR COMMENT , but i was never asked to supply more info like how are my controls set up , ie in FSX or FSUIPC , had i been asked for more info , in order to get to the cause of this issue i would have done so  , which would help you to maybe recreate the issue, and then  given advice by you on where to look for this issue , in the hope of fixing it .

If your commentary here is anything like it was in the ticket, I'm not surprised that's all you got. You seem sure it's on our end. If we cannot reproduce, then you can certainly push back, but you'd have to provide some sort of evidence, or volunteer information. We don't have time to chase every single issue people throw at us, particularly if only one person reports it, and we cannot reproduce it.

I don't think that's unreasonable.

[randomTOTEN 13]

I don't mean to stir the pot, but just to add my personal experience for the OP

I use FSX:Acceleration (Boxed) with no FSUIPC installed, on a Windows 10 Machine. I have no rudder pedals.

I find that at any weight the PMDG DC-6B exhibits no creep with the parking brake applied and engines at 1000 RPM

In fact, if I keep the engines at around 850-900 RPM the aircraft will remain stationary (at any weight) even with the parking brake released.

Robert Toten

[downscc 1,327]

1 hour ago, randomTOTEN said:

I don't mean to stir the pot, but just to add my personal experience for the OP

Same here and with many session in the DC6 including the beta.  I keep the engines at 1000 RPM and the parking brake holds.  I recall a discussion during beta regarding if the aircraft should start creeping without brakes with 1000 RPM and the consensus from the guys on the team flying the DC6 was yes; however, the parking brake is expected to hold her without problem.  Hope this helps the OP isolate where the problem is in their system.

[TheFinn88 13]

15 hours ago, randomTOTEN said:

I don't mean to stir the pot, but just to add my personal experience for the OP

I use FSX:Acceleration (Boxed) with no FSUIPC installed, on a Windows 10 Machine. I have no rudder pedals.

I find that at any weight the PMDG DC-6B exhibits no creep with the parking brake applied and engines at 1000 RPM

In fact, if I keep the engines at around 850-900 RPM the aircraft will remain stationary (at any weight) even with the parking brake released.

Robert Toten

I can confirm no creeping on Windows 10 Home 64bit, with Saitek rudder pedals, in P3Dv4, FSUIPC installed (without assignments/configuration), but with LINDA-module installed/configured. For setting the parking brakes I use the default P3D/FSX key-command (CTRL+.). On the parking brakes I can even run-up the engines to 30" and then switch to high-blowers for testing, and still get no creeping, regardless of dry/wet surfaces and gross-weight.

Have you checked your hydraulic pressure? Maybe your brakes have not enough pressure to hold the plane in place. For the start-up I leave the chocks set until the engines are running, as you dont have any hydraulic pressure without the inboard engines running. You could also try to use the emergency/electric hydraulic pump with the pump selector valve set to the brake system.

[SO666 4]

Hi Finn88.

If you notice the chocs are auto removed weather you like it or not , as soon as the first engine fires up , and yes i do use that emerg hyd brakes switch , to keep brake pressure at stated poh reading  , until all four engines are running , as this hyd switch is a pre start checklist item , and i also noticed the hyd pressure drops to zero , if its turned off after testing prior engine start , hence why i keep it on , knowing that chocks are removed to soon in my opinion  .

I have also noticed at engine warmup all 4 engines at 1000rpm with the emerg hyd switch off , the pressure drops to 2000psi , which is below what is stated in the poh , to  what it should be 2600 - 3050psi  , and i did report this in my ticket , just incase this might have some bearing on my issue .

But thanks for feed back .

regards alan cottrill.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Alan,

I'd suggest taking our feedback to heart, and evaluating it appropriately. I had mentioned specific actions related to FSUIPC earlier. Hearing back on that item would help me help you.

I'm all for people helping themselves, but you seem to be a little irritated that you didn't get more support in the support portal. Based on your actions here, I'm not at all surprised. If I suggest that you do something, you should do it...otherwise, you're better off troubleshooting on your own, and in that case, need to be okay with not receiving more support from others, based on your own decision to ignore the advice laid out.

[TheFinn88 13]

14 hours ago, SO666 said:

If you notice the chocs are auto removed weather you like it or not , as soon as the first engine fires up

Pretty brave those PMDG-groundhandlers, to creep around underneath my plane to remove the chocks while I'm firing up the engines....  

In your situation, I would (just for a test) try to remove FSUIPC and configure all controls via P3D-settings (what the manuals actually says to do so), and then look if you still get creeping. When the creeping stops, the problem is definitely with FSUIPC, and you should contact the developer of FSUIPC. When the creeping persists, you can rule out FSUIPC as a cause for the creeping. What else add-ons / modules do you use in your sim (weather/scenery/online-Networks)? And do you get creeping with other 3rd party planes?

Circling in a IT-problem can really be a pain in the a** and very time consuming. I know what I'm talking about, because it's my daily business.