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Developer comparisons and critisism

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How about this for an idea...epinions.com (great site for user reviews), amazon, and many of the online retailers provide a system where average users can submit personal reviews and "ratings" of products, vendors, and many other things. Perhaps this type of system can be set in place so that we can personally review developers, online stores, AND the products they sell! A "helpful" rating system can even be activated to see which REVIEWS the general population thought were the most helpful - an eBay-style user feedback score can be generated so those who contribute truly useful reviews can be separated from those producing agenda-driven drivel. Granted, this would probably take a lot of time to set up, and would need some babysitting - but imagine having a centralized location where we, as AVSIM members, could put up our opinions on a product, vendor, or developer and not have it bump off the bottom of the messageboard. Nevermind another forum - how about a rating/review system! :)-Greg

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While I feel that the majority of the community would be mature enough to handle this, it only takes a few posts to make any good thread go bad. I just don't see how it could not turn into a moderator's worst nightmare. On another note, a huge pet peeve of mine is people posting criticism of payware products in the general boards (for example the msfs discussion) while completely bypassing the vendors support forum. A lot of good information can be gathered by simply reading a vendors support forums BEFORE buying the product to see what kinds of issues people are having. Also, people tend to get frustrated, and feel the need to complain, while completely bypassing technical support. So many "customer complaints" are simple system issues, or even a failure by the customer to read the manual and properly operate the addon. While I like the idea in theory, I am afraid that the intelligent, constructive threads would be lost in a sea of "noise".


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Craig from KBUF

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>On another note, a huge pet peeve of mine is people posting>criticism of payware products in the general boards (for>example the msfs discussion) while completely bypassing the>vendors support forum. >>A lot of good information can be gathered by simply reading a>vendors support forums BEFORE buying the product to see what>kinds of issues people are having. >Hi Craig,Users should be able to post wherever they choose to, not where they are coerced to post.And one little problem about your suggestion about visiting support forums.There are now hypocritical payware developers that impose censorship by not allowing prospective buyers to visit or even read their support forums, a trend that will no doubt increase, unfortunately. They attempt, IMHO to hide their bugs, problems, etc. from prospective buyers while their minions post glory posts in the screenshot forums and MSFS general forum.Craig, Have you posted a criticism of MSFS here in the forums or asked about a problem?If so, what makes you so different from what you propose that you posted here instead of going through the tech support at Microsoft?A payware developer is the same in my eyes whether it is Microsoft or another add-on developer. I suggest you look inward at your own support issues in the past before you start telling us about your pet peeves, IMHO.If you desire only criticism in the vendors support forums, then take all those payware screenshots and bragging posts with you as well to those same stealth forums. (Double standard, and quite hypocritical, huh?)IMHO, more and more payware developers and their supporters post all kinds of bragging posts right before and after release, and the moment a bug, criticism, or other negative post appears, the supporters complain that the user should go post in the vendors forums.I find that practice hypocritical, egotistical, and not good for the community as a whole.A user, or prospective user should be able to post their criticism wherever they choose, not where a payware developer or their minions coerce them to post.Seems like a typical double standard being applied here, and if the criticism is warranted in the users opinion, that user can feel free to warn others so they are aware of the flaws before purchase.I don't see any developers of late coming in the forums stating their product is messed up, and they will fix it. They just keep it under wraps as long as they can, IMHO, and instead of embracing the members here, they protect their precious potential sales, instead of taking the integrity road of disclosing their bugs.These developers can learn from a Freeware developer who had problems after release yesterday, (LaPalma), and worked hard through the forums here to rectify it. That developer I respect, for they have the integrity to admit their faults, fix them and move on with what is a quality freeware release.Regards,Joeaopa.gif" border="0" alt="Grab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]


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Fully agree here.Jeff


Jeff

Commercial | Instrument | Multi-Engine Land

AMD 5600X, RTX3070, 32MB RAM, 2TB SSD

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Joe,"IMHO, more and more payware developers and their supporters post all kinds of bragging posts right before and after release, and the moment a bug, criticism, or other negative post appears, the supporters complain that the user should go post in the vendors forums.I find that practice hypocritical, egotistical, and not good for the community as a whole."Telling someone that support requests should go in the support forum of the company who made the product is egotistical? We have a hardware forum for hardware posts, a screen shot forum, etc. I am not coerced to go there, rather my personal experiences have encouraged me to do so. I can post a question about a particular addon and actually open up a dialog with the person (or persons) who actually did the work on it. That is really a unique opportunity which does not happen with software. You want payware companies to answer to criticisms, so why not give them the chance by sending your problems or questions right to them? That said, there are some vendors out there with strict censorship and/or closed forums, but I personally don't do business with those companies. I should have clarified that earlier. As to your other points, I don't make threads promoting payware addons. I have no problem with them, but I don't make them myself for the very reason you mention. Although I would not consider posting screenshots of a product in this category. That is what the ss forum is for, is it not? You obviously have had some VERY negative experiences out there, and that is too bad. It does happen, I'm not telling anyone it doesn't. However, don't judge everyone based on a few bad experiences. Telling people that they shouldn't even try to be heard is just wrong. I once purchased an addon and once I flew it at night, the gauges showed up incorrectly. I posted in this vendors forum, and within an hour I received an e-mail with a fix attached. If I had instead only posted in msfs general, what would have happened? My point is, if you go to the vendor and you do not receive an adequate response, then go ahead and post your experience anywhere you like. I would encourage you to do so. Even cross-post it here and on the vendor forum. Copy-and-pasting only takes a few seconds of your time.


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Craig from KBUF

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Guest davidvoogd

I think this is a great idea. What's the big deal with a bit more organization? Upon a release of a new product I always go to the forums first to read up on it - and it would be nice if I didn't have to do a huge search all the time.If people don't like the extra forum - they don't have to visit it! Of course it would have to have a good set of rules - basically common sense stuff - don't post something non justifiable, everyone approach the posts with the realization that it's just one persons opinion, and have a mature approach to it.To be honest I take more faith in individual reports on a product in a forum thread than a "official" review sometimes as if someone posts something that's complete nonesense others will surely rise to say that. In the end I see no harm at all in better organization of something that already exists.

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Couldn't agree more Craig. The vendor has first hand knowledge of his product, provides a support forum for his product, requires registration and login ala Avsim.com, Flightsim.com, Simflight Network, etc and is accused of locking out the "complainers and catering to the "glory posters":-)Anyone who wishes to may register and login to support forums and post whether they are product owners or not.What MOST developers do NOT allow are complainers who do not even own the products in question but obviously have an agenda...Let's face it...there ARE chronic complainers, bashers, and inflated ego's who feel THEY are must police the developers in order to protect the "poor consumer" who "cannot make an intelligent decision" without the aforementioned "consumer activist type" posting HIS opinions and arguments for all to see:-)We happen to feel that anyone who is a potential customer is perfectly capable of making an "intelligent purchase decision" on their own without coercion from anyone.The originator of this thread seemed to be asking for a "Consumers Reports" type of forum but in our humble opinion it would not work for the reasons stated here:-)We do agree however with Mr. Golding that developers should have an opportunity to correct mistakes by reviewers such as Paul cited.Seems an injustice to them to have to endure misinformation just because the reviewer didn't "do his job":-)


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton PP|ASEL

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>>and safe-guard the customers from low quality add-ons that are>unfairly claiming a share of the market.What's so unfair about it? Some people like low-quality inexpensive products. Many like to throw their money into a new product immediately after the release without doing any homework. Who are you to tell them what not to buy. Also such "crticisms and comparisons" are almost a daily feature of Avsim forums already - no need for another forum.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

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Ha ha, have to agree with you since a new forum would most likely do nothing but provide another platform for the multiple posting of certain peoples "opinions" of what "they" think is best for the community :-lol


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton PP|ASEL

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>Sadly, despite my email to the reviewer and even a subsequent telephone conversation with him as well, the factually incorrect review remains


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton PP|ASEL

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