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pracines

Interesting topic.... the comments are even more interesting

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On 12/11/2017 at 6:38 PM, torium said:

fs-flightcontrol already sold their software for FSX, FSX: SE, P3D, X-Plane 10/11 and FSW on their own website. Many do not like Dovetail allowing a 3rd party developer selling the same (downscaled) product on Steam. Humans are mostly irrational.

 

 

Steam users are a different market

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, arsenal82 said:

Steam users are a different market

Some are yes, but anyone on here who has FSX-SE is a Steam user. I've got 83 games/sims etc on my Steam account, so I guess that qualifies me as a Steam user and a gamer, but I'd say I was a flight sim nerd too.


Alan Bradbury

Check out my youtube flight sim videos: Here

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20 hours ago, WotanUK said:

Despite your somewhat insulting tone i assure you i didn't "miss the point of early-access".  I am one of the people who purchased FSW when it was released, i used it for perhaps an hour or so, uninstalled it and have never looked at it again. 

At the moment despite being in early access for what nearly 6 months i don't see a compelling reason to return, should that change i will happily reinstall.  My point 'Flybaby' is that whilst all this development is occurring people are moving to other sims.  I'll repeat, the 64-bit market was wide open, FSW missed the boat.  The "newbies" as you describe them are not going to be impressed with the 64-bit tag when it looks and acts substantially the same as FSX, Aerofly looks much better and offers better performance, DCS looks better, offers better performance and allows you to shoot things (it's also free), P3D is much more expensive (if you buy the license most simmers require) but already has many high end add-ons available for it, albeit at a premium price.

I also (rightly or wrongly) think that some of the comments relate to the business model Dovetail have used with there other sims, whatever they may eventually do with FSW they don't have a stellar reputation in the wider gaming world.  Personally, i was never impressed with various iterations of train sim, but too balance this slightly, performance / physics issues aside Train SIm world is a massive improvement.

Given the costs of the various add ins i have i am personally pretty much locked into P3D, so i could be accused (probably correctly) of being a little biased.

Again, you are judging the product as if it was released (as a complete package) to the market as opposed to the "early access" offering that will eventually get more and more updates before it is "Released" as a final package.

I think we all prefer certain aspects of the various sim out there over the other, but (to me) FSW offers a friendlier and informative approach for newbies than the other sims. If someone is looking to get into flight sims  I would recommend FSW because they will get more bang for their buck. FSW has pretty good graphics (Orbx terrain, truesky clouds etc), a great UI, tutorials (including the cold and dark), the ability to create more missions etc. 

What other sim offers so much for so little as a "base" sim???? 

And then you mention Aerofly, with its largely flattened landscape and charging you for its Orbyx bite sized scenery that will cost 1,000s by the time they cover the globe. Why do they get a pass on their dlc strategy?

If DTG missed the boat, then what has LR and LM been doing for all these years that they have been in this field making "small" incremental steps all the while "charging" you for it with new versions, not to mention the 100s dollars of dlc that is required to make it look good?

So, I don't think DTG missed the boat, I think they decided to chart a new course and it shows in the new features that they have added to the sim.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, rtodepart said:

lets give FSW some time till they finish guys than we can talk about it ..

The purpose of the OP is to communicate to DTG that I and many others are very far from being satisfied with FSW so far. We have no control over how much time DTG can continue development, but we hope they continue until FSW can be a flight sim that at least has the potential to satisfy anyone interested in aviation. If I and others do not express our concerns, then DTG may as well end the development and go gold....a disaster for FSW at this point. 

For me, this has nothing to do with a lack of patience, its just making it clear to DTG that there is a long way to go before most flight simmers will be satisfied. This way FSW does not end up like Flight School.

From a few posts I see here and on Steam, some are already so satisfied with FSW that even FSX and X-Plane are on the same level or worse. This position will only serve to doom FSW because only about 100 people in the whole world are flying in FSW, and that number has not grown much since the week after release. There are spikes during updates here and there, but the spikes are getting smaller, when they should be getting larger.

So, just because DTG is working hard on an SDK, does not mean we leave them off the hook of developing that core. At the rate the updates have gone so far, FSW needs years or maybe a decade of core development before it has the potential to satisfy most flight simmers. There has been lots of talk of big updates, yet none of them have been so wonderful to cause a spike over that peak of all time daily users of (only) 664 people. Actually the largest daily user spike has been only 204 people....quite sad if one thinks about it carefully. Will the SDK be the satisfaction solution that we all have been waiting for, very unlikely, but we'll see.

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21 hours ago, pracines said:

Cryss saying that "this is not the case" yet saying that most of the team is developing an SDK, is plainly contradictory. Yes the SDK is important, but if the core sim comes second to the SDK, there is where the mob says bassackwards and unacceptable to us.  This is good feedback to help DTG decide how they want to proceed, nothing wrong, all is well.   

 

Where is the contradiction???? It can be found in the so called "mob" than contributes nothing more than "demands and then complaints" without any knowledge or concept of what it takes to develop a "core" sim.

INITIALLY, the so called "community" demanded 3rd party support and claimed that no 3rd parties would jump on board with DTG.

Well, the "SDK" helps with that 3rd party support which ultimately has to interact with the core sim. 

So, let's see here...DTG took the initial feedback about 3rd party support and prioritized the SDK, now the so called community wants to give more "good" feedback (ie complaints) that contradicts the initial feedback....now that is bassackwards.

DTG is spending resources how they see fit to offer the best product they can to ultimately maximize profits. There is no contradiction in that "business" approach.

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, pracines said:

The purpose of the OP is to communicate to DTG that I and many others are very far from being satisfied with FSW so far. We have no control over how much time DTG can continue development, but we hope they continue until FSW can be a flight sim that at least has the potential to satisfy anyone interested in aviation. If I and others do not express our concerns, then DTG may as well end the development and go gold....a disaster for FSW at this point. 

For me, this has nothing to do with a lack of patience, its just making it clear to DTG that there is a long way to go before most flight simmers will be satisfied. This way FSW does not end up like Flight School.

So where are these so called concerns and demands of satisfaction from P3D and XP???

I mean really, why aren't the FSW complainers just enjoying these other sims and simply ignoring FSW altogether???

Bottom line is...DTG is probably the last hope (sort of like that Jedi thing) of any DEV taking a real stab at bringing real advances to the flight sim arena. In all these years, LM and LR just haven't brought their software from the stone ages to mimic anything like modern gaming graphics, performance etc. So now the pressure is on DTG.

From their base planes to truesky, these guys have been upgrading things at the "core" level to bring something new and refreshing with the very first purchase.

So go ahead and keep complaining, falsely hoping that DTG will fail. Because if they do, we will be left in the barren flight sim land of patchy addons costing 100s of dollars for decent terrain (and now Orbyx is developing for XP), clouds, weather etc,

With every painful update by LM, there will be a series of painful updates and downloads for the dozen or so addons that will need to be updated as well (which shows how well their SDK performs). There will be full installs and half installs (and a dozen "how to upgrade" posts and questions) every 6 months for a few major bug fixes.

And wait for Austin (who doesn't need to listen to what others say) to finally get around to improving his 5 mile distance cloud scatter that tanks frames to single digits...or as he "slowly" churns that old code to Vulcan while he diverts his resource to care for his smartphone versions.

So sit back and relax, give it a year or two, and let's see what FSW is able to produce. If it is anything like the last 6 months, then DTG will surely surpass what any other flight sim DEV has been able to do over the past decade or so.

DTG doesn't owe you anything...but they have the potential to create the best sim that "your" money can buy. I for one, hope they succeed at what they are doing.



 

 

 

 

 

 

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The question that Dovetail still has to answer is WHY they are making a flight sim. It seems on the surface an absurd thing to have to ask. They can say that they are passionate about building a game changing flight sim platform and be completely honest in saying so. But DTG has a reputation already established, right or wrong, that holds with it a level of distrust. They are going to have to fight that perception for a long time. With each new paid DLC offered at this stage in FSW's development, it is really easy for critics to point and say, "See we knew this is what would happen...Same ol' Dovetail"

I still hold hope for FSW. I definitely don't have a problem with paid DLC...we've been doing it for years with all other platforms, only calling them add-ons. The planes in various types will be developed. The tools you see in other platforms (paid and free) will come with the release of the SDK. There is still much work on the core engine to be done. TrueSky is great, PBR looks fantastic. Now the lighting engine, scenery engine and definitely performance are core engine needs. If FSW can knock those items out of the park, I have a feeling people would be a little more open to DLC offerings. As it stands now, however, paid DLC does nothing to change the Dovetail's reputation. 


Chris

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4 minutes ago, FlyBaby said:

DTG doesn't owe you anything...

You don't owe me anything either, but I got your attention and time....it was easy too. 

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14 minutes ago, snglecoil said:

The question that Dovetail still has to answer is WHY they are making a flight sim. It seems on the surface an absurd thing to have to ask

Sorry I don't remember which interview it was, but Stephen Hood said the owner of DTG is into trains, fishing and aviation, so he wanted to develop sims for all three.

 


Barry Friedman

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I think I could enjoy stock FSW if:

-When I flew into airports, there was a more realistic and varied representation of air/ground AI traffic.

-Real weather was available.

-When I flew in clouds the ground/scenery did NOT turn gray.

-The ATC were not all from the UK and of such slow speech.

-I could fly a helicopter, glider, airliner or commuter at least once in a while, but I enjoy GA very much too.

The lack of these in FSW are why I cannot fly in FSW for anything other than practicing circuits at a private uncontrolled field with radios off. After almost 30 years of real and simulated flight, to be limited to this gets quite boring very fast for me.  

 

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1 hour ago, Chock said:

Some are yes, but anyone on here who has FSX-SE is a Steam user. I've got 83 games/sims etc on my Steam account, so I guess that qualifies me as a Steam user and a gamer, but I'd say I was a flight sim nerd too.

I agree Alan, ever since FSX-SE came on the scene, and X-Plane became available on steam, the flight sim market has "kind of blended with" the gaming market. FSX-SE easily dominates all flight sims on Steam. AeroFly 2 still has a very long way to go. The Steam service has proven to be quite successful.

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40 minutes ago, snglecoil said:

The question that Dovetail still has to answer is WHY they are making a flight sim. It seems on the surface an absurd thing to have to ask.

Microsoft vision is “to help individuals and businesses realize their full potential.”

Why?

Google’s vision is “to provide access to the world’s information in one click.”

Why?

Dovetail games vision is “to become the No.1 Simulation Entertainment company in the world.”

Why?

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Steam users are rightfully ripping fsw and dtg hard.


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13 minutes ago, Boomer said:

Steam users are rightfully ripping fsw and dtg hard.

Can you justify your statement about FSW? Are Steam users cheated?

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1 hour ago, pracines said:

I think I could enjoy stock FSW if:

When I flew into airports, there was a more realistic and varied representation of air/ground AI traffic.

This is no real reason to complain about it at this stage of its development. Yes it is a bit silly to see more Piper Cubs flying around than were probably ever actually manufactured lol, but then again, most people change the default AI in other sims too and there's no reason to suppose one won't be able to do that with FSW.

1 hour ago, pracines said:

if: Real weather was available.

Again, it's on the way, and it's not available in P3D either by default, and it's only kind of available in XPlane in a half-@ssed way.

1 hour ago, pracines said:

if: When I flew in clouds the ground/scenery did NOT turn gray.

Yup, that is a bit cack, but presumably that is why things have slowed a bit in terms of updates over the past few weeks, one presumes they are working on trueSky implementation.

1 hour ago, pracines said:

if: The ATC were not all from the UK and of such slow speech.

Well the UK is the home of English, and English is the language of ATC, so whilst it is tempting to say 'tough sh*t, get over it' since I am from the UK lol, I'll instead offer this: If users from the UK who've been putting up with American ATC voices in Flight Simulator since 2001 everywhere around the globe, can tolerate that, then I'm sure you can return the favour at least until some payware ATC is available. :cool: 

Joking aside, it really is no different from MS putting those US voices in there for FSX because they are a US company. DTG is a UK company and did their geographical equivalent of the same thing. Either way, anyone it really bothers can add Pro ATCX in FSX or P3D and get geographically correct ATC if they like (well apart from over France, where in the real world, the controllers often speak French to Air France pilots, which is in my opinion dangerous), and one presumes this will also be the case with FSW when it is a full release.

1 hour ago, pracines said:

if: I could fly a helicopter, glider, airliner or commuter at least once in a while, but I enjoy GA very much too.

You can. Here is a video of me flying the Virtavia Blackhawk in P3D (for which it is a default aircraft) and in FSW (I ported over the payware version of the Virtavia Blackhawk which I bought for FSX into FSW). Note this video was made before trueSky was in FSW, so the clouds and lighting are a bit cack:

 

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Alan Bradbury

Check out my youtube flight sim videos: Here

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