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keithb77

Orbx recruiting......Xplane developers

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I think it's logical that freeware will become less prominent, but that was always going to happen if an increase in quality became deserved by users and I think we are at that point.

It's a trade off. Higher quality addons will ultimately attract new players. But because XP has done such a great job in how they've built tools for freeware, we'll probably always have a lot more freeware vs. FSX/P3D, where it's non-existent. It's just so easy to go make your home airport and have it actually look passable.

I wouldn't worry about it.

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Wow, this topic sure took off while I was away.
@Rob Ainscough, I read a couple of your posts, and in some areas, sorry to say, you are misinformed.  With the exception of your thoughts on DRM, they're trivial points, and enough posts and pages have gone by to just let it go.  DRM will always have 2 camps.  For and against.  But I've seen enough people get caught pirating my add ons to make me believe we definitely need it.  Even IXEG have recovered a 5 figure amount due to pirates getting caught and being told to pay up or face all their products being de-activated.  The down side (can't believe there's a downside)...the ones who get caught and refuse to pay, have nothing to lose, so they go to various forums and start bashing the developers and/or the publisher.  Anyway, that's another discussion.

One thing I will say, what John Venema said 4 years ago, is STILL reverberating through the flight simming community, as if it was said yesterday.  Especially through the X Plane community.  No one has forgotten it.  Especially the guys at Laminar.  Most have let it go, including Austin and Ben.  Austin was just shocked a payware professional would even consider uttering the words John did.  But I think what was said will be tied to OrbX and John for quite a while in the eyes of many members of the community.  Which is unfortunate, as they do make some great quality scenery, and it should speak for the company as a whole.  It's just a shame that, in the case of what was said 4 years ago, it was John who fanned the flames of conflict.  Would have been better if he just said nothing.
 

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1 hour ago, GoranM said:

Would have been better if he just said nothing.

And here you are again Goran saying how shocking it is that a payware developer (JV) would say such things about a competing product when a) Austin has form on this himself as with his sarcastic take down of Microsoft Flight and b) you and your X-Aviation stablemates have plenty of experience yourself doing this every time someone mentions X-Enviro or Dan Klaue's products on Facebook. 

I agree it might be satisfying to see JV having to eat even a small slice of humble pie but to see you getting on your high horse after all the mud you've thrown at competing products over the past few years, well, yuck.

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i7 6700K, GTX1080, 32GB DDR4 RAM, X34 3440x1440, Ruddy girt big mug of Yorkshire Tea

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And all is right in the Avsim world again.  I thought for a minute that I was in the wrong forum as this thread started with some thoughtful and civil debate, but of course it has degraded to personal attacks and rehashing old themes....

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3 hours ago, scotchegg said:

And here you are again Goran saying how shocking it is that a payware developer (JV) would say such things about a competing product when a) Austin has form on this himself as with his sarcastic take down of Microsoft Flight and b) you and your X-Aviation stablemates have plenty of experience yourself doing this every time someone mentions X-Enviro or Dan Klaue's products on Facebook. 

I agree it might be satisfying to see JV having to eat even a small slice of humble pie but to see you getting on your high horse after all the mud you've thrown at competing products over the past few years, well, yuck.

If you're going to start accusing me, or even XA as a whole, of something, make sure you're at least truthful about them, and you do them in an appropriate channel.  This is about OrbX coming to X Plane and asking for X Plane developers.  I responded to that.  This is not about me, X-Aviation, Dan Klaue, etc...
If you want to ask me questions about anything I say in other forms of communication or social media, my PM Inbox is always open.  Try to keep it civil.  Don't make it personal.  

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13 hours ago, Desaix said:

But there it has some sense, the producer of the printer and of the toner is the same, here we leave crumbs to poor Austin and the loaf to third party devs.

This is definitely not an accurate statement. X-Plane and Austin do FAR better than any add-on developer as a whole. There is a tremendous amount of people who purchase X-Plane and never purchase an add-on. Austin is doing just fine, trust me. He has the whole market (as he should). Add-on developers have a sliver of it.


Founder of X-Aviation

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1 hour ago, Cameron XA said:

There is a tremendous amount of people who purchase X-Plane and never purchase an add-on.

Yes, according to the latest Usage Data, nearly two thirds of all flights in XP11 are done in an X-Plane stock aircraft. Of course that does not automatically mean that those people don't also fly addon aircraft, but at least it shows that there are far less addon aircraft in use than one might think.

 

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8 hours ago, GoranM said:

I read a couple of your posts, and in some areas, sorry to say, you are misinformed.

I'm open to being informed, enlighten me.

8 hours ago, GoranM said:

the ones who get caught and refuse to pay, have nothing to lose

Actually that is not accurate, depends what country and frequency and if they're involved in mass distribution and other factors ... they do have something to lose (data can always be traced regardless of the levels of indirection and spoofing), the question is more about does the vendor want to pursue piracy which is around $10 Billion a year in theft for the software industry.

8 hours ago, GoranM said:

One thing I will say, what John Venema said 4 years ago, is STILL reverberating through the flight simming community, as if it was said yesterday.  Especially through the X Plane community.  No one has forgotten it.

Well that's a shame, all I can say to those folks is "life is too short, get over it already" - who wants to put on their grave stone "I held a grudge for 50 years"?.  I couldn't care less what was said, nor the drama, it doesn't help me or anyone get more product options into my flight simulator platforms.

1 hour ago, Cameron XA said:

There is a tremendous amount of people who purchase X-Plane and never purchase an add-on.

Would love to know how you could determine that, especially when there's a 60% piracy rate.  Even if Austin told you exactly how many copies have been sold world wide, you couldn't possibly determine "active" users over the years.  My case, I've been using XPlane since version 7, didn't really start buying add-ons until version 10, and now more since version 11 and I know many folks in my circle of friends that did much the same (I'm not going to go into reasons why as that'll start a debate to no where).  I would think it would be good to have combined add-on vendors control equal slice or more ...unless your reference is one specific vendor then I guess I don't understand your comment?

I might understand your concerns over Orbx from a competitive standpoint, but your comment about Add-on vendors having a small slice would be EXTREMELY discouraging ... I view a flight simulator platform as a whole ... that starts with LR developers to 3rd party developers, artists, distributors, etc. ... the entire platform is a "team" (even if they hate each other which I doubt they do) and that is the "True" number of resources that can make my (end user) simulator experience the best it can be ... from the coder to the support person answering questions online across a slew of content providers.

Cheers, Rob.

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53 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Would love to know how you could determine that, especially when there's a 60% piracy rate.

This comment doesn't even make sense. You quoted me, where I said don't even purchase. I have 10 years of payware market data, I have personally sold X-Plane's software for years, and I have a very close relationship with Austin and the Laminar team as a whole. I have gone to air shows and sold X-Plane as well. There is a HUGE core market of X-Plane users who are not purchasers of X-Plane add-ons. Most vendors share their sales data, and I have a good grasp on Austin's numbers as well. The amount of X-Plane copies sold vs. average of a typical add-on is not even near in the same hemisphere.

 

53 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I would think it would be good to have combined add-on vendors control equal slice or more ...unless your reference is one specific vendor then I guess I don't understand your comment?

I don't really know what you're trying to say or prove here? My reference is all vendors as a whole. I am not saying the market is too small to survive (well, for some product types it isn't viable), I am saying the disparity in sales count between actual X-Plane sales vs a typical add-on no matter the developer or vendor is not even close to the same. Austin lives a very good, well deserved life with a very handsome and deserving income. To say "we leave crumbs to poor Austin and the loaf to third party devs" is not even close to accurate.

 

53 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I might understand your concerns over Orbx from a competitive standpoint, but your comment about Add-on vendors having a small slice would be EXTREMELY discouraging

I have no concerns at all. It's reality, and as I've stated, vendors have a very small slice of the users compared to X-Plane copies sold. The aircraft and plug-in market are pretty good money makers for a small team of developers to live on, scenery is extremely challenging. Hopefully someone like ORBX can help make that market successful, and I don't view them as competition, but more-so a hopeful boost.

53 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I view a flight simulator platform as a whole ... that starts with LR developers to 3rd party developers, artists, distributors, etc. ... the entire platform is a "team"

This part is very true. Regardless of the relationship between any developers or vendors, good or bad, in the end everyone is a team for the platform. However, that doesn't change a thing I've said. :)

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Thanks for all the input guys, it started out good but has gone haywire now sadly. Topic Closed

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