Richard McDonald Woods

Tutorial: Flight from Sydney to Vancouver

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On 11/26/2017 at 3:28 PM, Richard McDonald Woods said:

Hi Peter,

I believe that Kevin's subsequent answer agrees with me, but if you have evidence otherwise I am happy to see it.

Kind regards, Richard

Hi Richard

No, that makes sense - I just wondered where the magenta speed figures on the PFD came from as you climbed up to 10,000 ft.  Does the aircraft work out its minimum clean speed for each flap configuration and put it there?

Also, I raise flaps when IAS matches the relevant indicator on the speed tape in the PFD.  You appeared to go well past this in the climb - selecting out of flaps 15 almost 20KTS faster than the indicator, for instance.  Was there a reason for this?  I'm not saying that it's wrong, just asking why you did it!

Peter  

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7 hours ago, phastings said:

No, that makes sense - I just wondered where the magenta speed figures on the PFD came from as you climbed up to 10,000 ft.  Does the aircraft work out its minimum clean speed for each flap configuration and put it there?

I could be wrong, but I think it might be V2 + 100.

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24 minutes ago, Captain Kevin said:

I could be wrong, but I think it might be V2 + 100.

In Richard's video, the magenta speed increased with each stage of flap retraction, so I'm not sure if it's tied to a fixed speed, like V2?

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22 minutes ago, phastings said:

In Richard's video, the magenta speed increased with each stage of flap retraction, so I'm not sure if it's tied to a fixed speed, like V2?

Oh, sorry, I must have misunderstood what you were asking. I believe it will initially give you the maximum speed you can fly at that particular flap setting, as you noticed that every time he retracted the flaps, the commanded speed went up. That's because the plane's not going to try to fly faster than what it's limited to based on the present configuration. Once the flaps are retracted enough, then I think it's V2 + 100. The same would happen on landing, if you were trying to slow down, the plane isn't going to set a speed lower than the minimum speed for that flap setting.

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3 hours ago, phastings said:

In Richard's video, the magenta speed increased with each stage of flap retraction, so I'm not sure if it's tied to a fixed speed, like V2?

In VNAV SPD on climb after take off with the speed window closed. 

 

VNAV will Comnand the speed to VFE -5kts for Flap retraction.

 

what in the video was done not quite correct is for both Flap 15 and Flap20 take off, the first Flap setting in the process of Flap retraction will be Flap 5. 

 

Which means even if you take off with Flap 20, at acceleration height, we can go straight to Flap 5. Because going to F15 from F20 doesn’t really give you any change on climb (note: both VFE and the minimum maneuvering speed of F15 and F20 are the same)

after Flap up VNAV will command 250kts or Vref 30 + 80 untill a default altitude of 10,000ft (modification permitted), after that the ECON climb speed which depends mainly on the weight / Cost Index of the airplane. On a heavy weight departure it is very likely to be around the ball park of 320kts with CI60. 

 

However the same could could not be said on arrival. on the 777 when the approach logic of VNAV is activated, the pilot is expected to open the speed window and reduce the speed to the maneuvering speed of each Flap setting, unlike the airbus ( or i heard that the 747-8 / 787 / some new 737 with IAN functions ) which the target speed is changed to the next Flap speed for you automatically as you extend the Flap. 

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Gentlemen,

Many thanks for raising these flap retraction points. You have certainly identified an area in which I need further reading. But then that is what a tutorial is for, isn't it?:happy:

I will add my findings when I have done more study.

 

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I think that I know where I have been going wrong.

The FCOM vol 1 page NP.21.39 states that with flap 15 or 20 takeoffs I should select flaps 5 at Vref30 + 20 knots, flaps 1 at flaps 5 display and flaps up at flaps 1 display. For flaps 5 takeoffs I should select flaps 1 at Vref30 + 40 knots, and again flaps up at flaps 1 display.

My error is in thinking that I should retract flaps only when I reach the next flaps number display. This then means that I am too late in retraction.

Many thanks for your prompts.:biggrin:

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12 hours ago, Richard McDonald Woods said:

My error is in thinking that I should retract flaps only when I reach the next flaps number display. This then means that I am too late in retraction.

I believe that is the way it is done on the 744. Confusing to say the least when alternating aircraft for flying. From page 65 of the 747 QOTS II tutorial.

 Passing the “5”marker on the PFD speedtape, select

flaps 5.

 Passing the “1”marker on the PFD speedtape, select

flaps 1.

 Passing the “UP”marker on the PFD speedtape, select

flaps UP.

Note that this is a different procedure than on our 737 or 777

products, where you would select the next higher flap setting

at each marker. (i.e, select flaps 1 when passing the "5" marker.

 

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12 hours ago, Richard McDonald Woods said:

I think that I know where I have been going wrong.

The FCOM vol 1 page NP.21.39 states that with flap 15 or 20 takeoffs I should select flaps 5 at Vref30 + 20 knots, flaps 1 at flaps 5 display and flaps up at flaps 1 display. For flaps 5 takeoffs I should select flaps 1 at Vref30 + 40 knots, and again flaps up at flaps 1 display.

My error is in thinking that I should retract flaps only when I reach the next flaps number display. This then means that I am too late in retraction.

Many thanks for your prompts.:biggrin:

 

No worries Mr. Woods.

 

i made exactly the same error when I did my airbus to 777 conversion. And a lot of ex-747 guys did that as well. 

 

Thank you for for making a tutorial of such a high quality. 

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That is probably why my many years with the B744 has confused me.

Interesting that Boeing seemingly changed their mind on this:blink:

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Now that the Christmas and New Year break is on us, you may like to review these videos. Your comments are always appreciated and may help others.

I look forward to reading any posts that you make.

Seasons Greetings!

Cheers, Richard

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Great video indeed!!

Small things about the Flap retraction.

I saw you waited until F5 speed before you raise the Flap from 15 to 5. this is too a 747-400 practice as well.

 

On the 777 (same as airbus) as long as you are above F15 speed and  accelerating (either you have a trend arrow or the number is moving up), you can select F5. And so forth for the rest of the Flap retraction. 

 

Becuase the (as per FCTM which has two charts on maneuvering margin, one for Flap retraction and the other for Flap extension  ) the 777 has sufficient maneovring margin during Flap retraction. 

 

Happy Holidays everyone. 

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In Part 3 at 13:45, why does the Autopilot Disconnect warning appear on the EICAS when you start to taxi on to the runway?

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3 hours ago, dmwalker said:

In Part 3 at 13:45, why does the Autopilot Disconnect warning appear on the EICAS when you start to taxi on to the runway?

If I had to guess, he may have accidentally hit the autopilot disconnect button or bar at some point. You'd normally hear the alarm go off, but it looks as though the video got clipped somewhere. If you start from around 13:42 and look closely, you'll notice the taxiway light on the left side sort of just jumps to a different spot.

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