[VATSIM] What have I done wrong?

[Woozie 732]

I'm sure ATC/Airport Authorities can tell similar stories about dealing with Airline OCCs ;)

 

[Chock 17,769]

If I was new to it and considering trying Vatsim, then saw this thread, I'd change my mind about trying it and avoid it.

[simbol 5,819]

7 minutes ago, Chock said:

If I was new to it and considering trying Vatsim, then saw this thread, I'd change my mind about trying it and avoid it.

Lol why? They are even taking about something else.

To get back on topic, we all have made mistakes on Vatsim, don't feel bad and keep trying, we all learn from mistakes.

Best Regards 

Simbol 

[anden145 2,285]

8 hours ago, tooting said:

  I agree with high towers the newbies should practice at a smaller airport and not heathrow or gatwick.  I feel for the controllers in busy places like gatwick and heathrow that are dealing with newguys that have no idea what they are doing when they have 10 or so other a/c on their freq too.

Oh dear - this is the exact reason, why I don't fly on VATSIM, and why I'm discouraged to do so! That attitude alone, is - to be bluntly honest - sad and a little bit frightening. 

If that's the guidebook for ATC controllers on VATSIM, to be told off like that for newcomers to the hobby, it's really scary. We all have to be here. The poor guy, made an honest mistake - frankly, I would have made it too - and then comes in here to learn more. And instead of a welcoming tone and a pad on the back, he gets a ripping. 
While you may be knowledgeable of the topic (and undoubtedly, you are), your tone is simply so condescending and disappointing, that I wonder what the goal of your original post to the OP was.

Oh, well - If the tone you're leading with, in any way is preference for the way to guide and help newcomers...
... well - I think I'll stay clear of VATSIM for the forseeable future...

[skelsey 765]

13 hours ago, Bluestar said:

From time to time I'll have the same or similar numeric numbers as another aircraft on frequency and will be advised by ATC that there is another aircraft on frequency with a similar number.  This can really be a problem when I am on UHF and the other aircraft is on VHF.  It was not unusual to have a zero in my military call sign and it would be used by the controller which would be Texas zero five one. I'm not sure how it is reflected on the ATC data strip? In your example above it is my understanding that BAW027 and BAW27 would be different call signs. 

blaustern

As far as I know the callsigns appear in the ATC system exactly how they are entered on the flight plan - leading zeroes and all (hence why they have caused problems in the past). You are correct that as far as the system is concerned BAW027 would be a different callsign to BAW27  (but in practice would not be an issue as there is only one BA27 flight). The issue as I say is that it seems they are easy to misread, particularly with alphanumerics  (eg the BAW05DV situation referenced may be misread as BAW50DV, BAW027 --> BAW207 etc) - obviously there are two main issues, the obvious one if there was a BAW207 also on frequency, but even if there isn't the crew may well miss a call if they think it is intended for another aircraft.

Eurocontrol have a 'similar callsigns' department which attempts to make sure there aren't two or more easily-confusable callsigns on frequency together (hence the BAW88MC's and RYR45PR's etc flying around). I'm not sure if the FAA have something similar?

[Chock 17,769]

46 minutes ago, simbol said:

Lol why? They are even taking about something else.

It's not what they are talking about, it's the fact that, despite the question being answered on literally the first reply, it was followed up by a lot of comments and attitudes which do Vatsim no favours at all.

Sure, take Vatsim seriously if you want, but at least try and make less experienced people feel they would be welcomed. By its very nature Vatsim is going to get some people who are not real-world pilots trying it. If such people gain the impression they are going to be are met with the kind of attitudes on display here, where they won't be made to feel welcome unless they're reeling transmissions off like they are a 747 pilot with 15,000 hours, or filing a perfect flight plan as though they're also an airline dispatcher with years of experience, then it's not going to do anything to help Vatsim become more popular.

If they keep that up, Vatsim will indeed only be populated by those with that attitude, because nobody else will want to go near the thing.

[B777ER 2,485]

1 hour ago, tooting said:

I heard one on the train to gatwick last week (they didnt know i was sitting behind) talking to an other pilot to convo went like this. 

pilot a: Here look at my Christmas roster

pilot b: Oh god look at that duty on the 23rd 

pilot a : I know ill go fatigued for that one 

pilot b: Oh i dont blame you.

pilot a;  I KNOW YOU SPEND YOUR WHOLE LIFE GETTING IN THE PILOTS SEAT AND THE REST OF IT TRYING TO GET OUT OF IT.... 

 

The trip hes gone fatigued for was an absolute sod to recrew and envolved shafting 2 more pilots just because he doesnt want to do the trip.

 

That sums its up in one scenerio,  Hes going fatigued and shaft someone else for a Christmas trip and then admitting he rather not do the job hes supposed to do.   

I hear that sort of stuff all the time.

Go to any real world pilots forum, pprune, airlinepilotscentral, etc... You would think they hate what they are doing and spend every waking moment figuring out how to ditch trips.

[bjratchf 80]

If you thought this was bad, head on over to the forums at airlinepilotcentral...

 

I personally see both sides of the coin at vatsim- and they have to strike a very difficult balance (alienate new kids interested in aviation vs promoting the most realistic detailed services available). There will always be some debate as to how far to take things. Just remember- it is an optional service, vatsim. Scare too many people away and you'll have empty skies and bored controllers. 

After 15 years in this career (7 at a major global airline) my advice is to err on the side of "friendly encouragement, promote aviation interest and enthusiasm." If I were 16 again and reading about not doing my CFMU due diligence or matching callsigns, I'd be over it, and out. 

[Silicus 879]

tooting's type of attitude is exactly the reason why stay away from vatsim.

To the OP, way to go to ask a newbie question - sorry you got this type of response.

 

[skelsey 765]

1 minute ago, Anders Bermann said:

Oh dear - this is the exact reason, why I don't fly on VATSIM, and why I'm discouraged to do so! That attitude alone, is - to be bluntly honest - sad and a little bit frightening. 

If that's the guidebook for ATC controllers on VATSIM, to be told off like that for newcomers to the hobby, it's really scary. We all have to be here. The poor guy, made an honest mistake - frankly, I would have made it too - and then comes in here to learn more. And instead of a welcoming tone and a pad on the back, he gets a ripping. 
While you may be knowledgeable of the topic (and undoubtedly, you are), your tone is simply so condescending and disappointing, that I wonder what the goal of your original post to the OP was.

Oh, well - If the tone you're leading with, in any way is preference for the way to guide and help newcomers...
... well - I think I'll stay clear of VATSIM for the forseeable future...

Anders,

I can absolutely assure you that this sort of attitude is in the minority.

Saying that, there is a valid point that as a new VATSIM member you will probably get more out of your early flights by flying in locations where it is slightly less complex and/or busy, simply because by its very nature the controllers will have more time to help you, explain things etc (though I wouldn't have put it quite in Pete's unique style). Heathrow and Gatwick are by some margin the busiest airfields on the network and it's possible in some circumstances that one controller could be handling both, plus other airfields in the London area, so you can see how it is difficult for someone dividing their time amongst maybe 20 different pilots to spend a lot of time explaining everything to a new member!

Now however is a great time to get in to VATSIM - there is more support than ever through the Pilot Resource Centre and Authorised Training Organisations (which can be VATSIM divisions or external bodies such as Virtual Airlines or even standalone training organisations) which offer help, support and training to get you online.

Like any large community there will always be a few twits who feel the need to throw their weight around/be condescending etc, but in my 18 years of online flying I have to say that the helpful, pleasant people far outweigh the idiots. In that time I've learnt an awful lot, met and spoken to people from all over the world and all kinds of different backgrounds and made a number of genuine friends who I regularly see in real life - to the extent that some of them came to my wedding!

It is a fantastic community and as I said in my original reply you should not be put off by people nitpicking at irrelevances.

[thibodba57 462]

8 hours ago, tooting said:

I find most pilots to be pampered Pri Madonnas who also live in their own world and care for nothing apart from themselves, and thinks anyone owes them a favour for just doing their job,

 

I find this a bit interesting.  You complain about pilots and their self absorbed attitudes but then demand that “newbies” stay out of your way so you don’t have to deal with them at major airports and to only fly RW routes and flight numbers at appropriate times.  I’m thinking it’s time for some internal reflection of your views of the world.  You need to take a big long breath.  I have seen nothing but hostility in your posts.  Is this the level of hostility you use when interacting with your fellow coworkers (pilots) on the phone.  Could be they are hostile towards you cause you are hostile with them. Given how hostile you are with almost everyone in this thread.  Just some food for thought.

[Groovy_Kincaid 71]

All I can say is wow! I was thinking what everyone said.

Attracting new people into this hobby is not achieved by the comments indicated in this thread.

I enjoy a couple of glasses of wine will I fly in my pretend world. Because that’s all it is.

I’m sure real world pilots don’t get forecasts of micro stutters, blurries, sudden frame rate drops, textures not loading and square tiles.

If some one wants to go to Gatwick in Transavia or Air Koryo, is that any sweat off of your back? Like I said, it’s a pretend world. 

Good on the OP in trying this out and immersing themselves. I would have done the same.

[fluffyflops 1,858]

46 minutes ago, thibodba57 said:

I find this a bit interesting.  You complain about pilots and their self absorbed attitudes but then demand that “newbies” stay out of your way so you don’t have to deal with them at major airports and to only fly RW routes and flight numbers at appropriate times.  I’m thinking it’s time for some internal reflection of your views of the world.  You need to take a big long breath.  I have seen nothing but hostility in your posts.  Is this the level of hostility you use when interacting with your fellow coworkers (pilots) on the phone.  Could be they are hostile towards you cause you are hostile with them. Given how hostile you are with almost everyone in this thread.  Just some food for thought.

never had one complaint from a pilot, not one.  And have you ever me??, no I didnt think so.

They just think take the mickey, from my experience a new person into OCC from external or from being ground staff or ex crew will normally take about 6 weeks to have the same attitude as I do about flight crew as do 99% off the staff in OCC's  

like the others have said on pprune youll see theres always hostility among pilots vs ops staff.    As the same hostility from qualified staff who do the job day in day out to completely unqualified radio DJs.

Same as doctors and nurses.  and as I said 4 times now, I just wish vatsim gave pilots an exam and proper training. 

 

[skelsey 765]

4 minutes ago, tooting said:

I just wish vatsim gave pilots an exam and proper training

Sounds great. What sort of exam is this going to be and who's going to do the instructing/examining etc?

[fluffyflops 1,858]

6 minutes ago, skelsey said:

Sounds great. What sort of exam is this going to be and who's going to do the instructing/examining etc?

basic RT. how to follow instructions for a start.  so when its busy in gatwick the controllers not waiting 5 mins for a read back.

And help when you see stuff that like thats 4800 kms.