How much difference does the mobo make ?

[MarkW 1,491]

57 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Since you don't care about internal visuals then no need for Glass panel case, you can save $100 with standard full tower and put that towards a better motherboard like the Asus ROG Maximum Hero Z370.  Would avoid the Noctua and spend $70 more on a good water cooling kit EKWB A240 that will give you room to grow as needed.

Since I suggested the Z370, go with 8700K (if you can find one) for $100 more. 

The 1070Ti is not a bad choice, but if you elect to use P3D V4 with TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP=10, you'll exceed it's 8GB VRAM limit.

So for $170 more, you'll get a very good setup over your current selection.  If you go with a 1080Ti for $700 (+$150) then you'll have what I would consider the best performance to price ratio for flight simulators and 3D shooters ... so if you can stretch the budget to +$320 I think you'll be in a performance happy place (about as good as you can get currently).

Cheers, Rob.

 

Rob,

 

Why EKBW A240 (something I have never heard of btw) vs Corsair H105 ?

Also, what is your take on the ram.  3200 for a Z370/8700 chip combo?  Is there a CAS Latency number to target?

 

thanks,

[MDFlier 2,031]

I've been a huge ASUS fan for years. All of my builds from the 80286 up to and including my Core 2 Duo build were on ASUS motherboards. I never had a single motherboard issue. 

I build my 15-3570K build on an ASRock board, and it was also problem free. 

My latest build, an 15-8600k, is my first Gigabyte build (Z370 Gaming 7). Unfortunately, I had my first ever bona fide motherboard problem. The 1st board I received had 2 non-functional memory slots. The replacement board has been fantastic. I've been in the computer business for over 30 years and I've seen more bad motherboards than I can remember. All I can tell you is that there will be a small number of bad boards from every manufacturer. 

I'd use any of the 3 brands again in a heartbeat. 

  

27 minutes ago, MarkW said:

Rob,

Why EKBW A240 (something I have never heard of btw) vs Corsair H105 ?

Also, what is your take on the ram.  3200 for a Z370/8700 chip combo?  Is there a CAS Latency number to target?

thanks,

I'm not Rob, but the specs for the Coffee Lake chips say that 2666Mhz memory is required. If you plan on overclocking (a lot), then you might want to go with faster memory. Otherwise, save yourself a couple of bucks a go with the 2666Mhz. I try not to do "Extreme" overclocking, so I typically push the stock rated memory just as hard as I'm pushing the CPU and I've never had an issue. I ran my 3.4Ghz 3570K at 4.3Mhz for 3 years solid. I was using the "standard" memory (1333Mhz, I think) and never had an issue. 

As to CL numbers, you'll never be able to discern a practical difference between 15, 16, 17, or 18 CL in practical use. I wouldn't base a purchase solely on that. 

[martin-w 3,234]

Re the NH-D15S. I actually own one. Superb. Great cooling and noiseless. Before being advised to "avoid the Noctua", perhaps we should ascertain what your expectations are in this respect.

Is your ambition to overclock as far as possible, do you not care that custom loops, and AIO's, can, on occasion, leak? Do you not care that a custom loop will require regular maintenance? If so, then avoid the Noctua if you so choose.

However, if you would be happy with overclocks in the region of 4.8 - 5 GHz, zero maintenance and the impossibility of leaks and understand that a few hundred megahertz is insignificant in terms of frame rate... then perhaps you might choose not to avoid the Noctua.  

This topic invariably causes heated debate. So to clarify, I have no issue with you deciding on a custom loop, or an AIO. I recently opted for water myself when I built my daughters PC, but would advise that you consider the pros and cons of both first. 

[scottb613 1,188]

Hi Folks,

Hah - this thread is the gift that keeps on giving - yeah - been running my 2700K@4.7Ghz for 5 years or so with a Noctua (14 series) - pretty substantial OC - never had an issue - honestly - I like the simplicity - I'll probably stick with them... My temps last I checked - years ago - were right around 78-80C...

Regards,
Scott

[martin-w 3,234]

5 minutes ago, scottb613 said:

Hi Folks,

Hah - this thread is the gift that keeps on giving - yeah - been running my 2700K@4.7Ghz for 5 years or so with a Noctua (14 series) - pretty substantial OC - never had an issue - honestly - I like the simplicity - I'll probably stick with them... My temps last I checked - years ago - were right around 78-80C...

Regards,
Scott

 

In that case Scott, you would be very pleased with a D15S. Honestly, I never hear it in my case, but it handles a great overclock. The D15S is the high compatibility version as you know. Very good RAM clearance and further away from the upper most PCIe slot. One fan, but two fans only reduces temp by a further two degrees, and they do provide clips if you wish to do that.

 

This is interesting too, to improve the aesthetics a bit, black fans now available plus tops for the heat sink...

http://noctua.at/en/products/accessories/na-hc2-chromax-black

Bit pricey though for what they are.

 

 

[MarkW 1,491]

21 minutes ago, MDFlier said:

 

I'm not Rob, but the specs for the Coffee Lake chips say that 2666Mhz memory is required. If you plan on overclocking (a lot), then you might want to go with faster memory. Otherwise, save yourself a couple of bucks a go with the 2666Mhz. I try not to do "Extreme" overclocking, so I typically push the stock rated memory just as hard as I'm pushing the CPU and I've never had an issue. I ran my 3.4Ghz 3570K at 4.3Mhz for 3 years solid. I was using the "standard" memory (1333Mhz, I think) and never had an issue. 

As to CL numbers, you'll never be able to discern a practical difference between 15, 16, 17, or 18 CL in practical use. I wouldn't base a purchase solely on that. 

I was wondering about the top speed limit.  I am very unlikely to overclock my memory and will probably go with a moderate overclock on the chip as I am not planning to de-lid (at least not initially).

[MDFlier 2,031]

I just read you're build sheet, Scott. 

You've got an 17-7700K @ $329 and the Gigabyte Z370 board at $164. That's $493,

I just went to the Micro Center web site, and added an 15-8600K ($299) and a Gigabyte AORUS Z370 Gaming Ultra ($169 - but you get a $30 discount for a "bundle" so it goes in the cart at $139) for a total of $439.98.  You can save $50 by getting a Gen 8 CPU instead of the Gen 7 i7-7700K. I almost went the 7700K  route myself right until I noticed that.

Check the i7-7700K vs 15-8600K reviews out there...   

Edited December 7, 2017 by MDFlier
I still can't type. ;(

[scottb613 1,188]

Hi Martin,

Yeah - I replaced all my case fans with Noctua - quieted everything down - big fan... 

Hi MD,

Isn't the clock speed much slower on the 8600 ? I've never used that store before but I'll take a gander...

Regards,
Scott

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MarkW said:

Why EKBW A240 (something I have never heard of btw) vs Corsair H105 ?

Also, what is your take on the ram.  3200 for a Z370/8700 chip combo?  Is there a CAS Latency number to target?

I prefer the EK A240 (or higher) because:

1.  Separate pump and is designed to allow for upgradability/flexibility (reusable and easy to swap out or add components, block, pump, radiator, etc.)

2.  Electric pump doesn't sit on top of the CPU.

As far as RAM, I would just make sure whatever motherboard one goes with, check the QV list for RAM posted by the MB vendor.  Most RAM is higher frequency but increased CL or lower frequency reduced CL.  As suggested I would avoid the "exotic" RAM making claims but will not guarantee their XMP profiles work.  I would NOT go for the cheapest RAM either but it's most important to see what you MB supports, their should be an updated QV list of RAM vendors and model numbers for the MB of choice.

33 minutes ago, martin-w said:

This topic invariably causes heated debate.

No heat from my side, differences of opinion all part of the process and encouraged, not discouraged.  When debates shift to "qualifications of who's got the better opinion/experience" is when things get heated ... there really is NO NEED to get into the "qualifications" process between members as it doesn't add anything of value to the OP.  I respect everyone's opinion especially those that have shown they care.

I think the OP is getting some great information to make an informed decision.

Cheers, Rob.

[MarkW 1,491]

1 minute ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I prefer the EK A240 (or higher) because:

1.  Separate pump and is designed to allow for upgradability/flexibility (reusable and easy to swap out or add components, block, pump, radiator, etc.)

2.  Electric pump doesn't sit on top of the CPU.

As far as RAM, I would just make sure whatever motherboard one goes check the QV list for RAM posted by the MB vendor.  Most RAM is higher frequency but increased CL or lower frequency reduced CL.  As suggested I would avoid the "exotic" RAM making claims but will not guarantee their XMP profiles work.  I would go for the cheapest RAM either but it's most important to see what you MB supports, their should be an updated QV list of RAM vendors and model numbers for the MB of choice.

 

Cheers, Rob.

Thanks Rob.  I would not go with a separate water system.  I did that once and the pump broke, system leaked and killed my MB and Ram.  It was ugly.  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, MarkW said:

I did that once and the pump broke, system leaked and killed my MB and Ram.

Ok, but the Corsair H105 has a water pump and has hose and connections so it's equally prone to same type of failures/leaks as any other water cooled setup.

With that said, I've never had a single water cooled setup ever leak on me going back to 2001 with my first Koolance setup.  These days the water cooling options have advanced/progressed so much they are almost fool proof provided correct installation/setup.  Heck even the pumps now have cooling elements for the pump itself and support modulated power and vibration isolators  (the kinda of stuff I used to used in my race car only in smaller scale).  

On the maintenance side, replacing fluid is optional ... I had one water setup go for over 3 years without a single drain and it was working just as efficiently as day one.  Where there is maintenance needed is in the blowing out dust in a case and it's fans ... if you have any fans in your system, one should blow them out once a month or every other month.  For fanless systems the maintenance is less but they also accumulate dust but doesn't require as frequent cleaning (blowing out).

Cheers, Rob.

[mdata 46]

4 hours ago, scottb613 said:

Current Cart:

Looking at your list, yes this is impressive HW - and I agree with Rob on the MB, CPU and the GPU. If you could, I would always go with the latest HW generation. In my earlier days I always went for a future proof MB and a low level CPU to save money and then upgraded later to a better CPU when my bank account had cooled down. I stopped doing this when becoming more mature and realizing that I spent over the years more money for a system that only marginally became faster instead of getting the latest and greatest at the time and save the money up for the next PC (or other nice things).
To make a long story short, I would go with the Z370/8700K combo. If had have the budget to get a GTX 1080 at the time it would have been the GPU of my choice, but I am happy with my 1070 as well.
However, I have always stayed away from Water coolers. For two reasons, I do not overclock anymore and the thought of a leakage scares the wits out of me.
Another thought when overclocking - you are aware of it I am sure; this heats up not only the CPU but the electronics around the CPU as well e.g. the voltage converters, the memory, etc. Are latest generation Water coolers able to remove the excess heat there as well? I am not sure, but I am sure fans will. The Noctua is a great choice; I have one in my system as well and it is silent - I am a fan of silent systems, another reason for me to not overclock.

Whichever way you will go at the end, with the current HW you will get a tremendous performance anyway. I envy you for the possibility to upgrade now

Ah, last thought, I am going to get killed for this one: have you thought of a recent Ryzen CPU? They have really caught up, and start to get interesting when looking at the performance/cost ratio....

Cheers
Frank

[MarkW 1,491]

1 hour ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Ok, but the Corsair H105 has a water pump and has hose and connections so it's equally prone to same type of failures/leaks as any other water cooled setup.

With that said, I've never had a single water cooled setup ever leak on me going back to 2001 with my first Koolance setup.  These days the water cooling options have advanced/progressed so much they are almost fool proof provided correct installation/setup.  Heck even the pumps now have cooling elements for the pump itself and support modulated power and vibration isolators  (the kinda of stuff I used to used in my race car only in smaller scale).  

On the maintenance side, replacing fluid is optional ... I had one water setup go for over 3 years without a single drain and it was working just as efficiently as day one.  Where there is maintenance needed is in the blowing out dust in a case and it's fans ... if you have any fans in your system, one should blow them out once a month or every other month.  For fanless systems the maintenance is less but they also accumulate dust but doesn't require as frequent cleaning (blowing out).

Cheers, Rob.

I was a one in a million situation and at that time I has someone else build the system so that was part of the issue.  I think I will just go with the all in one Corsair....if something goes wrong I will either return it or chuck the entire thing and replace.

[Vali 83]

By getting an 8700K I would also consider an AIO.. in order to clock it as high as possible and still being stable. And 8700K seems to be a good CPU for overclock.

 

[ryanbatc 12,820]

11 hours ago, scottb613 said:

Hi Rob,

Will definitely take it on board - much to consider - lol - you can see how much time passes for me between builds... So I might as well do it right...

The prices on the 1080Ti 's I've seen were closer to the $1,000.00 mark - maybe I'll have to look again...

Regards,
Scott

Me and Mark have been exchanging PM's at the hardware forum.  I just can't part with the cash for a GTX 1070...  400-500 bucks in insane.  I spent 320 on my GTX 970 and I thought that was pricey.  I'm really bummed that the mid-high xx70 card is so pricey!  My next upgrade will likely be a 8600K/GTX 1060 6gb / 16gb gskill trident z.  I'm going to "attempt" to keep my corsair 650d case and 750w seasonic psu.  I just don't know how people can part with a grand for a GPU - nuts!