30hz vs 60hz

[Guest]

Like I said, the Vsync signal is always present regardless of window mode used ... I haven't polled the entire population of FSX or P3D users to know if NI 1/2 refresh or NCP adaptive Vsync worked or didn't work ... the very small population of users I've been exposed to and that came to about a 60/40 mix.

Cheers, Rob.

[American 833 Heavy 132]

On 12/15/2017 at 1:20 PM, ChrisKSDF said:

1/2 refresh rate in NVI has no effect on P3D as this only works with applications that run in true full screen mode (not borderless window mode as P3D runs). Limiting frames is what's keeping your sim smooth, as it's essentially limiting the output to half your 60Hz refresh rate anyway.

Not true at all. It absolutely works. Everyone's rig is different but it personally gives a smoother experience in v4 while allowing the refresh rate left at 60hz.

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

10 minutes ago, American 833 Heavy said:

Not true at all. It absolutely works. Everyone's rig is different but it personally gives a smoother experience in v4 while allowing the refresh rate left at 60hz.

Some need 30Hz monitors to get smooth, stutter-free experience in P3D when FPS is above 30, some apparently only need to set 1/2 refresh rate vsync (on 60Hz monitors). I wish I'd knew what it takes to get this setting to work. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by 0Artur0

[GeeBee 5]

I just tried this 30 fps malarky and here are my findings.

Set the in-sim limit to 30 and I get massive attack of the blurries.

Setting my monitor to a custom resolution of 30 hz, it is much better. Also, the limit is 30 strict, not 29 or 28, or 31, which tends to happen if you use a software limiter.

30 fps is still yucky compared to 60, but the stuttering is gone when flying in a plane / scenery where FPS are fluctuating between 30 and 60.

Both above scenarios require setting in-sim limiter to unlimited, and triple buffering ON.

 

[Bert Pieke 7,584]

On 11/30/2018 at 10:55 AM, 0Artur0 said:

Some need 30Hz monitors to get smooth, stutter-free experience in P3D when FPS is above 30, some apparently only need to set 1/2 refresh rate vsync (on 60Hz monitors). I wish I'd knew what it takes to get this setting to work. 

Try (freeware) RTSS,  Scanline X/2 option.

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

10 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

Try (freeware) RTSS,  Scanline X/2 option.

Never heard of it.

I'll try it... but what does it do? Do I leave all the other options on default? I just set the scanline x/2 and that's it?

[Bert Pieke 7,584]

7 minutes ago, 0Artur0 said:

Never heard of it.

I'll try it... but what does it do? Do I leave all the other options on default? I just set the scanline x/2 and that's it?

In P3D set fps to unlimited and vsync off.

In RTSS, create a profile for Prepar3d,  select Scanline X/2 and set the number beside it to a non-zero value.

That is it.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Bert Pieke

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

9 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

In P3D set fps to unlimited and vsync off.

In RTSS, create a profile for Prepar3d,  select Scanline X/2 and set the number beside it to a non-zero value.

That is it.

Thank you!

Last two questions... the number can be whatever (1 or 1000, doesn't matter at all?... it says the number is "scanline index" but I have no idea what that is or what it does)? Last one... what is this actually (does it produce similar results as 1/2 refresh rate setting in FSX)?

[Rogen 1,087]

21 minutes ago, 0Artur0 said:

Thank you!

Last two questions... the number can be whatever (1 or 1000, doesn't matter at all?... it says the number is "scanline index" but I have no idea what that is or what it does)? Last one... what is this actually (does it produce similar results as 1/2 refresh rate setting in FSX)?

What RTSS does is allow you to Vsync @ half the monitor Hz rate.

This then allows for better perfomance as most P3D instances can manage to output ~30 fps with a overhead allowance of ~33%, and because the output is vsync'd it's much smoother.

This is what it looks like Riva Tuner Statistics Server vsyncing @ half monitor 60hz for 30 fps @ L35 Big Bear airport

Note the FPS counter in the bottom RH corner,

In the first part of the vid (prior to showing the configurations) the monitor is running at 60 Hz with no vsync.

And as can be seen P3D just doesn't have enough performance to reach the 60 fps required to vsync @ 60 Hz and so the output is stuttery.

Whereas once vsync @ half the monitor Hz rate is implemented via RTSS, the counter drops to a reasonably steady 30 fps and flying the sim is much smoother. Essentually the frame rate is locked and synced to half the monitor Hz rate and 60Hz/2=30 fps

The only other alternatives are to purchase a 30Hz capable monitor, or have a PC system able to run P3D at >60 fps for the majority of time.

A third option is maybe one day LM will hence P3D enough to allow a much higher fps rate (I know it must be able to because occasionaly it glitches and provides quite high fps rates).

A 30 Hz monitor would be the cheapest if you find RTSS is not as good as you'd hoped.

Cheers

[Axis3600 50]

Should I leave the Vsync and TB OFF in P3D?

By cons if I leave unlimited on P3D I have the loss of AG approach

[Rogen 1,087]

1 hour ago, Axis3600 said:

Should I leave the Vsync and TB OFF in P3D?

By cons if I leave unlimited on P3D I have the loss of AG approach

You just do exactly what Bert Pieke says.

"In P3D set fps to unlimited and vsync off.

In RTSS, create a profile for Prepar3d,  select Scanline X/2 and set the number beside it to a non-zero value.

That is it."

Then, after seeing it working you can experiment further with it or choose not to use it.

Cheers

[Axis3600 50]

So I tried

For my part I have the same fluidity with RTSS and the option Scanline X / 2 (60 Hz)

that block FPS on 30 in P3D
And suddenly I do not have the AG that disappears

Edited April 24, 2019 by Axis3600

[Bert Pieke 7,584]

7 hours ago, 0Artur0 said:

Thank you!

Last two questions... the number can be whatever (1 or 1000, doesn't matter at all?... it says the number is "scanline index" but I have no idea what that is or what it does)? Last one... what is this actually (does it produce similar results as 1/2 refresh rate setting in FSX)?

Try -1 as a start.. it is the vertical location of the scanline break.

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

5 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

Try -1 as a start.. it is the vertical location of the scanline break.

I will give it a try.

Thank's for bringing this to my attention. I guess I missed it somehow.

[Rogen 1,087]

Soooo...

RTSS VSync @ refreshrate/2 works quite well with unlimited frames in P3D and a 60 hz screen mode, but still is not quite as smooth as a 30 hz screen mode with P3D VSync and Triple Buffering enabled.

Likely because in RTSS there is no triple buffer option, at least that I'm aware of, (please do jump in if you know of otherwise).

What to do, what to do...

Add to the RTSS VSync @ refreshrate/2 the NVidia option of "Silk Smoothness", Silk Smoothness essentually  provides buffering to assist with smoothing out microstutters with 5 options ranging from off (zero) and increasing to a level of 4.

I've given it a trial with RTSS VSync @ refreshrate/2 and Silk Smoothness with a value of 2 and it does feel very much like the default P3D VSync with its Triple Buffer enabled.

Note: results may vary but it's working fine for myself with Windows7 and my 1070Ti, Silk Smoothness is an option exposed via the NVidia Inspector utility.

Worth experimenting with to see it it can help with your own particaular configuration, and please do advise if you find it improves smoothness for yourself.

I've actually added RTSS to the exe.xml so I don't have to bother with starting as I'll be running with it for extended testing given it appears to also help prevent sudden VSync drop offs associated with the fps falling just out of the VSync range.

This thread details the Silk Smoothness option a little more.

Silk Smoothness Thread

Cheers

Edited April 25, 2019 by Rogen