Anxu00

What's the appeal(s) of Flying Heavy Airliners?

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I live for the procedural stuff because I'm a nerd about transportation and logistics. Plus, I can take off on a flight, get stuff done around the house or catch up on my podcasts while in cruise, then land, turnaround, and repeat. It's a good deal to me.

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41 minutes ago, cleonpack93 said:

I live for the procedural stuff because I'm a nerd about transportation and logistics. Plus, I can take off on a flight, get stuff done around the house or catch up on my podcasts while in cruise, then land, turnaround, and repeat. It's a good deal to me.

We must be soulmates :)

Peter

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You haven't "flown" it until you whack all the automation off and actually have the throttles and the yoke in your hands.

2017-12-8_7-0-15-552.jpg

The PMDG 777 is a joy to hand fly and I do so at every opportunity. (not just from 100 Above on Final)

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On 12/16/2017 at 11:57 AM, Anxu00 said:

Flying for real is exhilarating with all the physical feedback and the full surround visual.

It is, I just returned to real world flying after 20-year hiatus. As a matter of fact just finished the Cirrus SR20 transition course. Our desktop simulators are simply incapable of conveying realism (not even close) of real world flying hence I really abandoned the sim world except some basic procedural stuff (Garmin G1000/PC Trainer - $30). So if you have some dough I urge you to do some flying for real - completely different experience. But yeah, it ain't cheap, one hour with an instructor on an SR20 may cost you more than all the monies you invested in your simulated world but success is extremely rewarding.

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On 12/21/2017 at 6:22 PM, Rob Ainscough said:

I doubt there would be any aircraft I wouldn't want to fly, virtual or real.  If there were an Aircraft Anonymous, I'd be their #1 member living it one day at a time.

Cheers, Rob.

Rob, with your sim pit setup, you have no excuse not to try everything there is. :)

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For me flight simulation is more of a game than a step into reality.  I'm not seeking a challenge or trying to return to the past.  I just want to have a bit of fun.  Therefore all my flights are in clear weather with 1/8 cirrus at about 35,000 feet to give the sky a bit of texture. All of my flights start at 10;00 AM on the 29th of June..

Mostly I fly my Quest Kodiak over mountainous scenery for flights of 90 minutes to two hours.  That's about the length of my attention span.

Once in a while I like to play Maverick and  feel the 'need for speed' so I fly the default  FA-18 for 20 minutes or so zooming around the sky.

And maybe once a quarter or so I'll fly the default B737 from say San Francisco to Albuquerque.  Not much to see at 30,000 feet but I have the Airport ID utility turned on so the nearest airport displays at the top of my screen.  Then I look for it and see if I can find it.  The GPS displays it but I want to see it on the ground.  Many times I can't. 

I agree with Michael.  Simulators give you a visual experience but come nowhere close to really flying.  And the feeling you get flying solo several thousand feet above the ground with your destiny in your own hands just can't be explained, let alone replicated on a monitor.

But since I lost my medical a decade ago those days are gone for me.  

Noel

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4 hours ago, birdguy said:

Simulators give you a visual experience but come nowhere close to really flying

Agree.

In my view, if you are not able to sustain real world flying on an ongoing basis, the worst thing a sim pilot can do is fly a GA aircraft for real, if only once or twice.  Although it completely makes sense that you would want to do it, it completely destroys your virtual delusion and it takes you a while to completely feel comfortable with flying your desk again.  Nothing really feels the same after that.

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1 hour ago, ErichB said:

In my view, if you are not able to sustain real world flying on an ongoing basis, the worst thing a sim pilot can do is fly a GA aircraft for real, if only once or twice.  Although it completely makes sense that you would want to do it, it completely destroys your virtual delusion

Hi Erich,

I beg to differ. I have flown a C172 once and would like to do it again on occasion, but I actually prefer simulated flights. They are better for the environment, cheaper, much more convenient, and I can fly airplanes that in real life nobody can fly anymore. I found it most interesting to compare my virtual experience with the real thing, but now I know the difference and I happily continue flying my sim.

Peter

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Peter, you flew a 172 once or you got a ride in a 172 once?   If you went up in a 172 only once you obviously never soloed.  So you really don't have the experience of having flown an airplane even if the pilot let you handle the controls for a while.

People ask me what it's like to fly.  I can't tell them.  There is no ground based experience that I ever engaged in that comes close.  I've never raced motorcycles or cars so perhaps that might be somewhat comparable.  

But being all alone in the sky you have a sense of complete control.  No pause button.  No walking away when the telephone or doorbell rings.  It demands your complete attention.   

Having said that flight simming in an interesting, enjoyable pastime.  I like doing it among my other hobbies.  But it's not flight.

I like train simming too.  It's also fun.  

In Portola California they used to have a railroad museum.  And at the time for a hundred bucks you could drive a real diesel locomotive.  I plunked down the money and drove the thing around a track under the supervision of a qualified engineer for 20 or 30 minutes.  But I'm no locomotive engineer and can't compare train simming to driving a real train.  Observing speed limits.  Getting the feel of pulling 50 loaded freight cars behind up a long grade.  Braking on a down grade.  Stopping a passenger train so each car is in it's proper place on the platform.  I can't even do that right on the simulator.

But I think I would enjoy being a locomotive engineer more than I enjoy playing one on a simulator. 

Noel

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8 hours ago, birdguy said:

Peter, you flew a 172 once or you got a ride in a 172 once?   If you went up in a 172 only once you obviously never soloed.  So you really don't have the experience of having flown an airplane even if the pilot let you handle the controls for a while.

Hi Noel,

I did a 45 minute introductory flight lesson. In preparation for it, I got the A2A C172 and practiced a lot before the actual flight. I think I did a good job: the instructor led me do everything (taxi, t/o, ..) except for final approach and landing. He also operated flaps and radios. Of course it was just a short VFR flight, no planning, waypoints etc.

I completely agree with you: real flying is different. My biggest surprise was the role of the instruments. As a simmer I learned you have to keep your eyes on the instruments almost all the time, but in the plane I instinctively focused on the window to scan for obstacles, birds etc. The instructor told me that this was more important, and at least for a VFR flight that makes a lot of sense. And yes, the level of responsibility and the amount of adrenaline is quite different as well.

On the other hand, I actually found the real plane easier to fly than the one in FSX. I had no problem keeping the altitude, for instance. I guess one gets more direct feedback on changes in direction. I was delighted to observe the instructor's pre-flight exterior inspection, which was exactly like simulated in A2A. They did a great job on this model.

Generally, I would say that the procedural aspects in the simulation are very precisely modeled. It is a little bit like in a racing game. In good racing simulators, the physics and operation of the car is accurately modeled, but it still makes a difference if you go at 270 km/h in a real car (I did that once as a passenger. As a driver, I only got up to 220 km/h in a rental car in Germany).

Having said that, my response to Erich was about his hypothesis that even 1-2 real flight will spoil your virtual experience. I did not for me. I am very happy to know the difference, and I actually enjoy simming even more because I am now aware how close the procedures are to the real thing ( at least with real weather and on Vatsim :) )

Peter

 

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I tend to fly mixed aircraft! as a streamer people want to see different things. But end of all days I only spent 350 hours in game and I'm still an newbie at it. I can say that flying light aircraft is allot easy and not as much work then flying in a A320 or 757. I can fly but the landing is the hardest part!

If you setup before you take off like your ILS and whatnot then when you landing you have there there in front of you, just need to watch for speed and alt..  With Active skys! and some other add-ons that I have, makes it even more realism and sometimes way to hard! Like, winds, cross winds, rain/snow, dark very dark, thick clouds. 

With me, I be staying with more smaller aircraft's so that I can look at orbx more :)  

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22 hours ago, birdguy said:

Simulators give you a visual experience but come nowhere close to really flying

Unless it's airliner sim.  More reflection and watching YouTuber convinced me of this.  Most airliner pilots work the machine, the departure and approach are strict, and during cruise it's mostly watching for system status and see the sky goes by.  Mind numbing, just as people hate to sit in airplane for long hours.  So I believe the sim airliner "feeling" is the same as the real thing.  I almost did not buy the PMDG 777 because of the tedium of long flights.  I only bought it at the end because I saw the time accelerating feature.  Nowadays, I am more incline to do a freight flight rather than a passenger flight (if I decide to get back to it), and stick to short route.  I also did not get the PMDG 747v3 yet, largely because of the stiff price tag for P3D.  However, the new cockpit and the variations are mightily tempting.  But then again, if I only use it for cargo then all the others will be a waste. 

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This thread really explains why they build more than one type of car.  Like they used to say back in the 60's "Different Strokes For Different Folks".

Me, I don't like "Bus Driving" but I understand those that do. 

You never get to sightsee and are tied to a fixed schedule.  As a truck driver, I have been all over the South and Southwest whizzing right past all of the POI's, never having the time to stop and explore.

I have spent way too much money on scenery not to take the time to carefully explore it.  I find that jumping into my J-3 or 185 and flying a general heading stopping in to visit the Orbx Freeware Airports and farm strips that I discover on the way a very enjoyable pastime, and it sometimes can become exciting because I have got myself into a pickle and have to find a way to survive it.

Don't sell flying simple aircraft with simple instruments short.  Try flying the mail using only 1930's instruments and aircraft with your weather cranked up to the max, and no excuses for being late. 

Never forget that IFR used to mean I follow the railroad and Dead Reckoning really meant If I make a mistake I'm dead. 

Dale

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You're right about one thing, Peter, sim aircraft are harder to fly than real aircraft; especially landing.

Dale, when I first started to fly the first instrument I had to learn how to use was the E-6B.  Does anyone remember those?  And flight planning meant spreading out a chart, drawing your route on it and circling prominent landmarks.  

The Luscombe I learned in had no avionics in it at all.  

Do todays pilots have to learn tower light signals?

Noel

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