Wingflex Question

[Guest Mik75]

I remember the old wing flex topic vividly. There were many pictures in that thread, some of the guys put quite a lot of effort into showing what they´ve meant. And very often, it´s not about WHAT is said, but HOW it is said. And you know, this "QOTS III doesn´t exist" thing shows exactly what I mean! I´m a loyal PMDG customer, for years. I own pretty much every product you´ve ever released! And in the world of trade and economics, repsect for each other is quite important, that´s how the world works! Some of your customers in this forum, and some of the staff act quite arrogant, that´s something I personally don´t like at all! Especially, because there´s no need for that! And there is no need to become personal, as well! Your QOTS II (!!!!) is a work of art, and it wouldn´t take anything away from it, if you would admit, that the wing drop is caused by a design limit, or a trade off for saving VAS, or whatever. Planes are inspected VISUALLY, every day, before every flight! And if the wing of a 747 would hang down like this with almost empty tanks, I´m pretty sure there would be some further investigation! ;-)

However, there is a reason why I usually don´t post in this forum, so I´m over and out!

[scandinavian13 5,192]

5 minutes ago, Mik75 said:

And you know, this "QOTS III doesn´t exist" thing shows exactly what I mean!

I don't think you understand what I was getting at, though.

Your earlier assertion was "trust me, my powers of observation are really good," yet the recollection of the aircraft name shows the opposite. It's minor, but an illustration of the discrepancy between actuality and the recollection of 'reality' in the mind.

8 minutes ago, Mik75 said:

Some of your customers in this forum, and some of the staff act quite arrogant, that´s something I personally don´t like at all!

This has nothing to do with arrogance. Actuality exists. Numbers and data define and reflect that actuality. If you wish to assert that the actuality of the sim differs from the actuality of the real world, bring data. There is ZERO room for feelings - arrogance, pride, whatever - with data. Assertions that I'm hiding behind arrogance when requesting data is an argument to emotion. Emotions are necessary in this discussion...just data.

Data has no emotions.

11 minutes ago, Mik75 said:

Planes are inspected VISUALLY, every day, before every flight!

You're correct, but your example is not sound. I inspect the aircraft I fly visually, but the visual inspection is an inspection of things that can be represented by data: in place true/false, item in range x/y. Wing flex between x/y by eyeballing the thing isn't one of them, nor is fuel between x/y by eyeballing it. Sure, you can verify that you see fuel by pulling the caps, but you will want to have the data behind it by looking at the gauges.

14 minutes ago, Mik75 said:

And if the wing of a 747 would hang down like this with almost empty tanks, I´m pretty sure there would be some further investigation! ;-)

...based on...?

Data. Where's yours? :)

[soerennielsen 35]

5 hours ago, Mik75 said:

However, there is a reason why I usually don´t post in this forum, so I´m over and out!

Neither do I, for the very same reasons.

Some of the staff is terribly thin skinned and take everything personally, specially lacking to understand the differences of the different part of the world

the forum members is coming from, IE different language and the way to say things. We already try to express ourself the best we can, but our mother language

is not English and even less American.

Do the staff here speak German, French or Danish, No. But they still sell their software all over the world. and expect everybody to act, behave and express

themself as they do. Open your eyes to the rest of the world.

[HighBypass 2,339]

I'm sorry, but regarding the in-sim pictures the OP posted: Where is the shadow which the 747 should be casting? The nosewheel doesn't look as if it is in contact with the ground - nothing to reference it by. Has the OP used slew mode and dropped the sim 747? The pic could be showing the wing flexing due to the excessive bounce! Taken at just the right time to not show extended oleos....

 just playing devil's advocate.

 

EDIT - Sometimes the sim can display and outside view which looks like a fish-eye lens has been used. Is the level of zoom used in those pics completely free from that fish-eye effect? If not then excessive curvature would be present.

Edited December 18, 2017 by HighBypass
additional question.

[Nighthwk 566]

1 hour ago, soerennielsen said:

Neither do I, for the very same reasons.

Some of the staff is terribly thin skinned and take everything personally, specially lacking to understand the differences of the different part of the world

the forum members is coming from, IE different language and the way to say things. We already try to express ourself the best we can, but our mother language

is not English and even less American.

Do the staff here speak German, French or Danish, No. But they still sell their software all over the world. and expect everybody to act, behave and express

themself as they do. Open your eyes to the rest of the world.

I’m missing the point of your post here. There should be no reason for you to not want to post here due to the staff, they are VERY helpful and pleasant when people don’t go into their forums saying how their stuff is wrong with no data to back it up. Kyle, Chris, and RSR aren’t thin-skinned, have you seen some of the stuff they have had to deal with? It just bugs them when people openly say they’re wrong and their simulations are flawed based on pictures, estimates, and feelings on how things SHOULD look. Aircraft are built on data, not on observation, and I think they just get annoyed when people don’t see this and time and time again, come here posting about how things are wrong. It happens a lot more than it should, and I think they just get tired of going around in a circle and saying the same thing over and over again. How do they lack understanding of different parts of the world? Their dev team, testing team, and beta team are incredibly diverse people from places around the globe. And this is the part I really don’t get, yes they sell their product around the world as all devs do, and yes they do expect people to express themselves in the way that they do and that is calm, collected, professional, and humble. 

[Nighthwk 566]

5 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

Data. Where's yours? :)

Reminds me of the phrase “Got Milk?”. Should be changed to “Got Data?”

[Nighthwk 566]

6 hours ago, Mik75 said:

However, there is a reason why I usually don´t post in this forum, so I´m over and out!

Care to elaborate on that reason? I’m genuinely curious as I see no reason for you to not want to post in the forum. Play by their rules, the few that they have, and you have no reason to be upset or discouraged. Picking a fight with Kyle certainly doesn’t do you any good. Relax and enjoy yourself, we’re all friends here :)

[soerennielsen 35]

6 minutes ago, Milton Waddams said:

I’m missing the point of your post here. There should be no reason for you to not want to post here due to the staff, they are VERY helpful and pleasant when people don’t go into their forums saying how their stuff is wrong with no data to back it up. Kyle, Chris, and RSR aren’t thin-skinned, have you seen some of the stuff they have had to deal with? It just bugs them when people openly say they’re wrong and their simulations are flawed based on pictures, estimates, and feelings on how things SHOULD look. Aircraft are built on data, not on observation, and I think they just get annoyed when people don’t see this and time and time again, come here posting about how things are wrong. It happens a lot more than it should, and I think they just get tired of going around in a circle and saying the same thing over and over again. How do they lack understanding of different parts of the world? Their dev team, testing team, and beta team are incredibly diverse people from places around the globe. And this is the part I really don’t get, yes they sell their product around the world as all devs do, and yes they do expect people to express themselves in the way that they do and that is calm, collected, professional, and humble. 

It is quite obvious. Open your eyes to the world.

[Nighthwk 566]

Just now, soerennielsen said:

It is quite obvious. Open your eyes to the world.

I don’t know what you mean by “open your eyes to the world”. Could you explain it a bit more?

[soerennielsen 35]

1 minute ago, Milton Waddams said:

I don’t know what you mean by “open your eyes to the world”. Could you explain it a bit more?

If you do not understand it, it is just my point. English is not my mother language. To me it is quite obvious. There is a world outside of the USA.

Is that so hart to understand. 

[Nighthwk 566]

15 minutes ago, soerennielsen said:

If you do not understand it, it is just my point. English is not my mother language. To me it is quite obvious. There is a world outside of the USA.

Is that so hart to understand. 

I’m aware there is s world outside of the U.S, very aware actually and to not be would be incredibly naive. I understand English isn’t your first language, it isn’t for the majority of the world, but what’s your point? Did I say something that made it seem like I didn’t realize there was a world outside of the U.S? That’s quite a statement...

[scandinavian13 5,192]

1 hour ago, soerennielsen said:

Some of the staff is terribly thin skinned and take everything personally, specially lacking to understand the differences of the different part of the world the forum members is coming from, IE different language and the way to say things. We already try to express ourself the best we can, but our mother language is not English and even less American.

Do the staff here speak German, French or Danish, No. But they still sell their software all over the world. and expect everybody to act, behave and express themself as they do. Open your eyes to the rest of the world.

Instead of making your assumption about the staff, and their apparently closed eyes to the world, you may want to hold off a bit and address the issues - not the people, since you're a bit off of the mark...quite a bit, in my case. Where, exactly, do you think my dry humor comes from? I'm not sure where the "thin skin" comment comes from, either...ord slår ikke någon ihjäl.

If someone told me the world was flat, I'd ask for data. It has nothing to do with thin skin or feelings at all. When it comes to making assertions, bring data. Words are words, so let them be words. If you're going to attempt to assert something as truth, though, explain why it is exactly that, using the data behind that assertion.

Zum Beispiel: ich habe Deutsch fϋr 8 Jahre studiert...og familie min er fra Norge.
^ That data may not be perfect (I don't have anyone to practice speaking either language with over here), but I think it's enough to show that - 1, you are incorrect; and, 2, it's a good idea to do a little research into the data to avoid public displays of Point 1.

 

 

SO!

Let us return to the original point, or this gets shut down because people couldn't handle the same request in the last threads:

Bring data - not feelings.

If you choose not to do so, then do not divert the topic back into feelings, or ad hom, land.

[Nighthwk 566]

7 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

Let us return to the original point

Agreed.

[Nighthwk 566]

16 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

Where, exactly, do you think my dry humor comes from?

Maybe from your stellar personality?

[Ephedrin 418]

Kyle,

well, I‘ve never given a lot to the outside or perfect modelling of wings, flight deck windows, toilet flushing sounds or sth like that, I prefer a correctly simulated entertainment system euuhm sry.. flight system... but tbh, when I look at the 747 from the outside its wings just dont look right... The picture is not „going down“ that easily like when you are sitting in the observation lounge in FRA and watch Jumbos come and go. There is something about those wings, that feels not correct. I have no data, of course, where should I have it from.. but I have eyes. When I load up your 747 with 10 tons of fuel and compare it to a DLH Jumbo that is coming in from LAX with asumed similar or close enough fuel (a ton or two more or less won’t make the difference) the one on my desktop looks somehow different. Heavier. Tired...I cannot tell you exactly if its wings hang 2 feet deeper than the original, but it looks kind of strange. I have never cared about it, if it was up to me the landing gear could just disppear like in FS95. I have never really watched it retract. But I see what those guys mean when they come and say „it is wrong“. I don‘t know if it‘s wrong, I don‘t know if it is due the perspective, the zoom, the real distance to the airplane of my POV and of the photographer..  But I see the point they (and they means more than one, no matter which language it‘s translated into :P ) found to complain/any-other-more-friendly-word :) 

 

cheers and good night.. past midnight here ^^