BARGAIN A2A christmas sale 25% (2017)

[Chock 17,769]

The pricing difference is the Academic vs the Professional versions for P3D. The Piper Commanche is either $49.99 reduced to $37.49 for the Academic version, or $79.99 reduced to $59.99 for the Pro version.

This means the A2A Commanche is undeniably expensive in comparison to most other GA aeroplanes, for example, even at its reduced price it is still almost twice the price of the Just Flight Piper PA-28 Cherokees and their similarly high standard TB-10/TB-20s, all of which are really excellent simulations of GA aeroplanes. Now in fairness, and as good as the JF Cherokees and Trinidad/Tobago are, I don't think anyone who has all of those things is going to deny that the A2A Commanche is certainly a more detailed and complex simulation of a GA aeroplane than the JF Cherokee and Trinidad/Tobago, and yes, I've got all of those add-ons and so I do know how good they are, but the A2A Commanche goes the extra mile in several respects and it is in my experience, the only FS add-on which does a truly convincing sideslip, so in addition to a lot of subtle engine modelling nuances, it has a superior flight model to pretty much every other FS add-on there is.

Thus I think a fair comparison would be akin to perhaps saying maybe the PMDG DC-6 versus the Flight Replicas DC-4. They're both great and I've got both of those too, but the price difference reflects the more complex nuances in one versus the other and if anything, ironically makes the cheaper Flight Replicas one the more overpriced of the two given the differences in complexity.

Having said that, one can find examples of very detailed and realistic airliner simulations which don't hit those PMDG/FSL price levels and which are nevertheless peerless, a fine example being the Majestic Q400 Dash Eight, which I think has a very good claim to being the best and most complex airliner simulation there is despite being way cheaper than anything FSL or PMDG sell. Then you've got things like the iFly 737 NG and 747-400 which compare favourably with the PMDG 737 NG and 747-400 but are half the price, and yup, I've got all of those too, so none of these comparisons are in any way biased in favour of something I own versus something I don't, I'm just telling it like it is. Some things I agree are more expensive than others and it's not always easy to justify, at least not in terms of what we end up paying.

But in the end, a lot of it comes down to how badly you want something. If I really want the best GA single there is for FSX or P3D, it absolutely is the A2A Piper Commanche, and whilst there are cheaper and still excellent other GA aeroplanes, there isn't one which compares to it for realism and attention to detail. But that does unfortunately come at a price, so whilst you are getting what you pay for, you just might not actually prefer to pay that much, and if I'm brutally honest, I'm can't say I am exactly thrilled at paying A2A prices even though I have done so quite a few times. I do nevertheless consider them as easily the number one FS developer by quite a considerable margin because they've consistently managed to innovate and produce excellent add-on products for years and offer superb support for them too. as a result, I don't know of anyone who has ever complained about one of their products, once they've actually got past the slightly painful process of paying for one that is.

Anyway, if it is all a bit too expensive for anyone and they've got the new aeroplane itch, go and get the Ant's Airplanes P2002 Tecnam Sierra. That thing costs less than a tenner and is amazing, with detailed engine damage modelling and servicing, all kinds of visual customisation for wheel spats, fairings pilots and passengers etc, even including raindrops modelled on the exterior, and at price which is practically giving it away, which just goes to prove that you don't need to spend a fortune to get a nicely simulated GA aeroplane!

 

[rooitou 119]

Well put Chock, seems you know what you're talking about. (Wish I had your job to afford all these fantastic aircraft ) As you say, it all comes down to how badly someone wants something, the old "willing buyer, willing seller" principle. And the likes of A2A get away with their prices, because enough people are buying their add-ons, otherwise they would have dropped their prices long ago if volumes dried up.

Perhaps it is I who need to adjust my "value-gauge", but I cringe when I see those prices and I can't honestly say that I fly my A2A C172 (which I bought with gritted teeth a few years ago) more often, or enjoy it more than any other decent GA aircraft (eg the Carenado Beechcraft Bonanza). Incidentally, Carenado not only offered its P3Dv4 upgrades for free (if you had the FSX version), but they now also offer FSX/P3D3/P3D4 all in one package for less than A2A charges for just an FSX version. Guess who I would rather support?

Absolutely agree with your recommendation for Ant's Airplanes P2002 Tecnam Sierra. I have it, it is wonderful, and costs around $12 (flightsimstore.com). If you want even better value and enjoy vintage aircraft, I would recommend Ant's Tiger Moth. It is freeware and puts the dated payware JustFlight Tiger Moth to shame. I used to fly a Tiger Moth in real life and Ant's Tiger Moth brings back all the memories more faithfully - for free!

[Moonflight 9]

+1 for Ant's Airplanes. His T-28 Trojan and CAC Winjeel are both superb - amazing bargains even at full price. And his Ballina Byron Gateway is one of the best freeware airports out there.

[HighBypass 2,339]

Is the A2A Connie price not in the ballpark for a decent working old airliner? Study level? Not sure, but as flying an old airliner isn't a one-man job, the other crew members are modelled. Yes, I bought mine via Just Flight, but I was happy with the price tag.

I am aware that DCS is the go to for full-on military aircraft simulations. They won't even power up if you look at them funny! (Correct procedures please). As yet I've not investigated any investment in that sim.

I do have a Viggen, but it's a freeware one for FSX:SE which looks great, makes the right (LOUD) noises and is ideal for terrorising local control towers 

[rooitou 119]

1 hour ago, HighBypass said:

Is the A2A Connie price not in the ballpark for a decent working old airliner? Study level? Not sure, but as flying an old airliner isn't a one-man job, the other crew members are modelled. Yes, I bought mine via Just Flight, but I was happy with the price tag.

I am aware that DCS is the go to for full-on military aircraft simulations. They won't even power up if you look at them funny! (Correct procedures please). As yet I've not investigated any investment in that sim.

I do have a Viggen, but it's a freeware one for FSX:SE which looks great, makes the right (LOUD) noises and is ideal for terrorising local control towers 

Good point about the Connie and I think a point which Pedro Trindade also touched on earlier. You cannot fly civilian or GA aircraft in DCS World, therefore the pricing systems are not really comparable or relevant, despite my assertion that DCS World modules offer better value. (If DCS ever move over to civilian flight sims, they will really upset the apple-cart!) Yes I guess the modelling of the Connie (and many other multi-engine airliners) is much more complex than the single-engine GA aircraft and may very well justify a higher price. I'm not into that category of aircraft, so my rant was more related to small single-engine aircraft. Should have been more specific, sorry.

DCS is almost a full-time job, just starting something like the A-10 Warthog or Mirage 2000 can take 10-15 minutes. There is a free-flight option which plonks you into the sky with all systems running, and you can get a taste of what the aircraft is all about without the learning curve, but that is just scratching the surface. But I guess the real point is that DCS World is not an option for most people who fly civilian aircraft and therefore a different set of rules govern their perception of "value". I understand and respect that, but I just don't buy into it.

Please give details of where we can get the freeware Viggen for FSX. I'm guessing it is an old Alphasim conversion?

[Chock 17,769]

36 minutes ago, rooitou said:

If DCS ever move over to civilian flight sims, they will really upset the apple-cart!

Well it seems that apple cart is upset because there is a Christen Eagle (AKA Aviat Eagle) coming for DCS world, being made by Magnitude 3, who were responsible for creating the MiG-21 BIS for DCS World.

Not everyone it seems is thrilled about a non combat aeroplane being created for DCS World from what I can gather, however I suppose one could view the Eagle as a suitable aerobatic trainer for military pilots since the real Eagle was designed to compete with the Pitts S2A, and the Pitts S2A was indeed used by a military display team - The Royal Jordanian Falcons, although they now use Extra 300s.

But the RJF is a bit unusual in that although the RJF pilots are indeed selected from the RJAF, the RJF's aeroplanes are owned and maintained by Royal Jordanian Airlines as part of a joint venture with the military as a means to promote goodwill and interest in Jordan, largely as a result of King Hussein's orders, since he was an enthusiastic military and civilian pilot himself.

So I suppose the Christen Eagle, in lieu of a Pitts S2A, does have a kind of vaguely military use as an advanced aerobatic and formation flying trainer.

[HighBypass 2,339]

On 26/12/2017 at 1:14 PM, rooitou said:

Please give details of where we can get the freeware Viggen for FSX. I'm guessing it is an old Alphasim conversion?

You are correct, sir!

https://library.avsim.net/zipdiver.php?DLID=195402

I also found a sound pack to enhance it, but cannot recall where it came from (no readme) : JA37 thunderpack.

I wasn't directly questioning your opinion rooitou, just more of a general question regarding justifying the price of the Connie due to the amount of non-eye-candy work which has gone into it.

[JYW 2,977]

Personally I think the A2A aircraft are worth every penny.  I enjoy a number of Carenado aircraft but comparisons between A2A aircraft and Carenado are missing the point.  Carenado aircraft consist of a beautiful set of textures, along with (usually) mediocre sounds and more or less 'default' level systems.  A2A long term rent (or already own) every real world aircraft that they're planning to simulate.  They go through them with a fine tooth comb, record the sounds of every switch, etc.  Systems representation is unmatched for the GA FS sector.

Don't need or want that level of detail?  No problem, save some cash and buy Alabeo/Carenado!  ... but that doesn't mean that the A2A products aren't value for money. Just that they're not for everyone.

Incidentally, A2A price their P3D products in line with the LM licencing options.  However, their academic and professional versions aren't in any way 'locked' to the respective versions of P3D.   I am not suggesting anyone deliberately buy or use the 'wrong' version; but it is perfectly possible that someone may own a P3D Professional licence, but require a A2A product solely for purposes that match the academic licence. 

Lastly, comparisons between P3D addons and anything to do with DCS are again missing the mark;   you could write all day about DCS's ability to drop bombs here and there, dogfight with your mates, and drop armaments over Berlin in 1941 ...... but for those utterly disinterested in military/combat aviation, DCS doesn't come close to comparing with P3D. No worldwide coverage, and.... well I don't think I need to continue with the lack of provision in DCS for GA/commercial flight sim enthusiasts.  (Not even a criticism of DCS - it's supposed to be limited to military and combat flight).

[lownslo 592]

3 hours ago, JYW said:

Don't need or want that level of detail?  No problem, save some cash and buy Alabeo/Carenado!  ... but that doesn't mean that the A2A products aren't value for money. Just that they're not for everyone.

I agree that A2A offer great value in GA aircraft (perhaps the most value today), but I'll submit that A2A is still the better choice over Carebeo.  Since the A2A products can easily be set to operate at the level of detail of Carebeo, it's pretty easy to set the former to fly off after the CTRL E combo.  And then on the next flight the A2A birds can be set-up to be much more immersive.  The best of both worlds!

Greg

[ThomasAH 61]

I have avoided A2A and similar aircraft with custom coded avionics for a long time, because they have problems with my Saitek and VRInsight panels. But at some point I wanted to operate the aircraft, not my hardware panels, so by now I'm using more of the VC and less of the hardware. This opened up a new world for me, including A2A aircraft! But I still enjoy my Carenado C337, probably because A2A (or JustFlight or Milviz or Flysimware) did not make one (yet!?).

A bigger monitor certainly helps with using more of the VC :)

[addman 33]

DCS gets old real fast if you don't enjoy flying over the same few, limited maps over and over again. It's a combat sim and it does just that very well but for GA you can't even compare it to FSX/P3D.

[Chock 17,769]

DCS, like Falcon, is good if flying combat and learning weapon delivery and stuff is your thing. It's fun if you have a buddy who likes that stuff too and you pair up over teamspeak and do all that combat stuff realistically. I used to do that years ago with a friend who was in the RAF, so he knew about all that weapon stuff properly; it was very educational. So if I ever end up in a parallel universe and get asked to carry out a durandal attack on a runway or out-turn an SA-6 or something, it'll be a piece of cake lol.

[Krister 51]

Thanks for the info regarding Ant's Airplanes - never knew such developer existed. Especially the Eaglet interests me since the Rotax 912 is what I fly!

[Chock 17,769]

Aircraft such as the Eaglet, Sierra, Ikarus and other very light aeroplanes which use engines such as the Rotax 912 are becoming increasingly common choices for PPL training because they are much cheaper to operate. The chances are pretty good that anyone doing a PPL these days will find themselves sat in something like that rather than a Piper or Cessna.

[HighBypass 2,339]

To digress, Krister - you may want to investigate the nice little Aerospool WT-9 Dynamic by Lionheart Creations - it too uses a Rotax 912. I like it - it seems to fly as you'd expect (layman's opinion), trims out beautifully, but then again the real one is used as a glider tug so I would think some stability is a good thing.