parachutem

A2A christmas sale 25%

Recommended Posts

Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Even at 25% off they're sodding pricey! I'm after a GA single piston prop but unsure which to go for. I like PA-28s but A2A chose to simulate a rare variant with an odd avionics fit out, so the C172 would seem most logical choice and closest to the C152s I've been in irl. However the C182 is pooowwweerrr...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, ckyliu said:

Even at 25% off they're sodding pricey! I'm after a GA single piston prop but unsure which to go for. I like PA-28s but A2A chose to simulate a rare variant with an odd avionics fit out, so the C172 would seem most logical choice and closest to the C152s I've been in irl. However the C182 is pooowwweerrr...

I agree, A2A is very expensive. I used to fly C172 in real life so bought the A2A C172 a few years ago for FSX/P3D3. Had to fork out again for the P3Dv4 version recently, which really irked me. I would like to get the T-6 Texan but not prepared to pay these prices, even with discount. Fortunately there are other options out there, even freeware ones which are decent enough.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, ckyliu said:

Even at 25% off they're sodding pricey! I'm after a GA single piston prop but unsure which to go for. I like PA-28s but A2A chose to simulate a rare variant with an odd avionics fit out, so the C172 would seem most logical choice and closest to the C152s I've been in irl. However the C182 is pooowwweerrr...

Then maybe get the A2A C182 now (I have it, it is great!) and the upcoming JustFlight C152 (still in development) later?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup there's no denying the A2A stuff is a bit pricey when you add all that Accusim stuff, but I do nevertheless think their Commanche is the best GA add-on by a long way, so if anyone is looking for one of theirs which is truly excellent, it's nice to be able to get that Commanche for a bit less. Good alternatives are the more recent Just flight PA-28s and their TB10 and TB20 Trinidad and Tobago, and they have a Cessna 152 on the way too as Thomas points out, which if recent offerings are anything to go by, should be similarly excellent and when A2A get around to making a P3D V4 version of Accufeel, they will be even better although of course if in FSX, they can already benefit from AccuFeel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got enough going on getting used to the superb Connie. Not flown her much at all, just mainly fired up those engines and shut them down. I may not use career mode for a little while :blush:

At least A2A do have sales now and again.. :cool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Debating which aircraft to repurchase for P3D myself.  Unfortunately, I’m in the same boat with the ol’ wallet...or just sticking with what I have in FSX.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good lord these are expensive for P3D, especially for owners of the professional edition. I’ll take a hard pass at these prices, thanks — especially since I’d be buying them again for P3D after having already bought them for FSX (something I’ve done with PMDG, reluctantly and with gritted teeth, but that I’m really not eager to do in any case). I just don’t fly GA enough to make this a remotely reasonable investment.

The fact is that — even on sale! — these prices seem insane to someone who spends hundreds of dollars a year on FS addons...

James

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, pedrotrindade said:

Really? 35€ for a high quality addon doesn't look expensive for me.

No, I'm sorry A2A prices are insane. I know value lies in the eye of the beholder, but I cannot see the value here. I also play other flight sims such as DCS World which is an ultra-realistic military jet sim with single and multi-player campaigns, VR and super-detailed, super-smooth graphics. And some of the latest aircraft releases on DCS World such as the Mirage 2000 and SAAB Viggen are currently on sale for the equivalent of US$31 (in my local currency) on Steam. Their older F-86 Sabre, Mig-15 and Mig-21 are going for $26 equivalent.

A2A aircraft are toys compared to those jets which have every single knob and dial modelled, radar, heads-up display, weapons systems, flight computers, you name it. They can fire guns, shoot missiles, drop bombs, hit actual targets, you can fly co-op campaigns with your mates in 20-30 player teams lasting several hours. Now that is value for money. Meanwhile here in FSX/P3D land, you pay $52 for an aircraft (FSX + P3D Academic bundle, because these imbeciles keep on selling separate versions) and the only thing these aircraft can do is take off, land and steep turns.

You guys are living in a bubble, which the likes of A2A and Milviz have created for you, making you believe that their aircraft are so fantastic and worth every penny. Meanwhile, just outside the bubble, there is a whole world with much better aircraft at much better prices.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Really? 35€ for a high quality addon doesn't look expensive for me.

Not sure which prices you’re seeing, but I’m seeing the C172 for P3D Professional listed at $80, reduced on sale to $60. You’re welcome to disagree, but yes, that seems expensive to me for an aircraft that basically defines (elegant) simplicity.

James

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rooitou said:

No, I'm sorry A2A prices are insane. I know value lies in the eye of the beholder, but I cannot see the value here. I also play other flight sims such as DCS World which is an ultra-realistic military jet sim with single and multi-player campaigns, VR and super-detailed, super-smooth graphics. And some of the latest aircraft releases on DCS World such as the Mirage 2000 and SAAB Viggen are currently on sale for the equivalent of US$31 (in my local currency) on Steam. Their older F-86 Sabre, Mig-15 and Mig-21 are going for $26 equivalent.

A2A aircraft are toys compared to those jets which have every single knob and dial modelled, radar, heads-up display, weapons systems, flight computers, you name it. They can fire guns, shoot missiles, drop bombs, hit actual targets, you can fly co-op campaigns with your mates in 20-30 player teams lasting several hours. Now that is value for money. Meanwhile here in FSX/P3D land, you pay $52 for an aircraft (FSX + P3D Academic bundle, because these imbeciles keep on selling separate versions) and the only thing these aircraft can do is take off, land and steep turns.

You guys are living in a bubble, which the likes of A2A and Milviz have created for you, making you believe that their aircraft are so fantastic and worth every penny. Meanwhile, just outside the bubble, there is a whole world with much better aircraft at much better prices.

FWIW I own most of the DCS addons, and you know they are far from being perfect. You have good modules and bad modules just like on any other platform but since you are comparing prices, without discounts they are pretty similar but in DCS you will get an eternal Beta product with half of the features working as it should. With the "imbeciles" you have a finished product that reproduces the real thing. Yes, I know a Cessna it's much simplier than a Mirage 2000C but I want to fly a Piper Comanche or a C172, and for me they have done a terrific job with their addons. I respect you opinion but if you compare A2A birds with other P3D/FSX GA addons where you pay less 15 or 20€ you will realize pretty soon that you didn't saved 20€ but you have wasted 30€. We don't even need to give examples.

1 hour ago, honanhal said:

Not sure which prices you’re seeing, but I’m seeing the C172 for P3D Professional listed at $80, reduced on sale to $60. You’re welcome to disagree, but yes, that seems expensive to me for an aircraft that basically defines (elegant) simplicity.

James

James, I believe the difference in prices is related with legal/licenses stuff, like flying schools but im not sure.

btw merry christmas guys:biggrin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The pricing difference is the Academic vs the Professional versions for P3D. The Piper Commanche is either $49.99 reduced to $37.49 for the Academic version, or $79.99 reduced to $59.99 for the Pro version.

This means the A2A Commanche is undeniably expensive in comparison to most other GA aeroplanes, for example, even at its reduced price it is still almost twice the price of the Just Flight Piper PA-28 Cherokees and their similarly high standard TB-10/TB-20s, all of which are really excellent simulations of GA aeroplanes. Now in fairness, and as good as the JF Cherokees and Trinidad/Tobago are, I don't think anyone who has all of those things is going to deny that the A2A Commanche is certainly a more detailed and complex simulation of a GA aeroplane than the JF Cherokee and Trinidad/Tobago, and yes, I've got all of those add-ons and so I do know how good they are, but the A2A Commanche goes the extra mile in several respects and it is in my experience, the only FS add-on which does a truly convincing sideslip, so in addition to a lot of subtle engine modelling nuances, it has a superior flight model to pretty much every other FS add-on there is.

Thus I think a fair comparison would be akin to perhaps saying maybe the PMDG DC-6 versus the Flight Replicas DC-4. They're both great and I've got both of those too, but the price difference reflects the more complex nuances in one versus the other and if anything, ironically makes the cheaper Flight Replicas one the more overpriced of the two given the differences in complexity.

Having said that, one can find examples of very detailed and realistic airliner simulations which don't hit those PMDG/FSL price levels and which are nevertheless peerless, a fine example being the Majestic Q400 Dash Eight, which I think has a very good claim to being the best and most complex airliner simulation there is despite being way cheaper than anything FSL or PMDG sell. Then you've got things like the iFly 737 NG and 747-400 which compare favourably with the PMDG 737 NG and 747-400 but are half the price, and yup, I've got all of those too, so none of these comparisons are in any way biased in favour of something I own versus something I don't, I'm just telling it like it is. Some things I agree are more expensive than others and it's not always easy to justify, at least not in terms of what we end up paying.

But in the end, a lot of it comes down to how badly you want something. If I really want the best GA single there is for FSX or P3D, it absolutely is the A2A Piper Commanche, and whilst there are cheaper and still excellent other GA aeroplanes, there isn't one which compares to it for realism and attention to detail. But that does unfortunately come at a price, so whilst you are getting what you pay for, you just might not actually prefer to pay that much, and if I'm brutally honest, I'm can't say I am exactly thrilled at paying A2A prices even though I have done so quite a few times. I do nevertheless consider them as easily the number one FS developer by quite a considerable margin because they've consistently managed to innovate and produce excellent add-on products for years and offer superb support for them too. as a result, I don't know of anyone who has ever complained about one of their products, once they've actually got past the slightly painful process of paying for one that is.

Anyway, if it is all a bit too expensive for anyone and they've got the new aeroplane itch, go and get the Ant's Airplanes P2002 Tecnam Sierra. That thing costs less than a tenner and is amazing, with detailed engine damage modelling and servicing, all kinds of visual customisation for wheel spats, fairings pilots and passengers etc, even including raindrops modelled on the exterior, and at price which is practically giving it away, which just goes to prove that you don't need to spend a fortune to get a nicely simulated GA aeroplane!

 

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well put Chock, seems you know what you're talking about. (Wish I had your job to afford all these fantastic aircraft :biggrin:) As you say, it all comes down to how badly someone wants something, the old "willing buyer, willing seller" principle. And the likes of A2A get away with their prices, because enough people are buying their add-ons, otherwise they would have dropped their prices long ago if volumes dried up.

Perhaps it is I who need to adjust my "value-gauge", but I cringe when I see those prices and I can't honestly say that I fly my A2A C172 (which I bought with gritted teeth a few years ago) more often, or enjoy it more than any other decent GA aircraft (eg the Carenado Beechcraft Bonanza). Incidentally, Carenado not only offered its P3Dv4 upgrades for free (if you had the FSX version), but they now also offer FSX/P3D3/P3D4 all in one package for less than A2A charges for just an FSX version. Guess who I would rather support?

Absolutely agree with your recommendation for Ant's Airplanes P2002 Tecnam Sierra. I have it, it is wonderful, and costs around $12 (flightsimstore.com). If you want even better value and enjoy vintage aircraft, I would recommend Ant's Tiger Moth. It is freeware and puts the dated payware JustFlight Tiger Moth to shame. I used to fly a Tiger Moth in real life and Ant's Tiger Moth brings back all the memories more faithfully - for free!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 for Ant's Airplanes. His T-28 Trojan and CAC Winjeel are both superb - amazing bargains even at full price. And his Ballina Byron Gateway is one of the best freeware airports out there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the A2A Connie price not in the ballpark for a decent working old airliner? Study level? Not sure, but as flying an old airliner isn't a one-man job, the other crew members are modelled. Yes, I bought mine via Just Flight, but I was happy with the price tag.

I am aware that DCS is the go to for full-on military aircraft simulations. They won't even power up if you look at them funny! (Correct procedures please). As yet I've not investigated any investment in that sim.

I do have a Viggen, but it's a freeware one for FSX:SE which looks great, makes the right (LOUD) noises and is ideal for terrorising local control towers :biggrin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, HighBypass said:

Is the A2A Connie price not in the ballpark for a decent working old airliner? Study level? Not sure, but as flying an old airliner isn't a one-man job, the other crew members are modelled. Yes, I bought mine via Just Flight, but I was happy with the price tag.

I am aware that DCS is the go to for full-on military aircraft simulations. They won't even power up if you look at them funny! (Correct procedures please). As yet I've not investigated any investment in that sim.

I do have a Viggen, but it's a freeware one for FSX:SE which looks great, makes the right (LOUD) noises and is ideal for terrorising local control towers :biggrin:

Good point about the Connie and I think a point which Pedro Trindade also touched on earlier. You cannot fly civilian or GA aircraft in DCS World, therefore the pricing systems are not really comparable or relevant, despite my assertion that DCS World modules offer better value. (If DCS ever move over to civilian flight sims, they will really upset the apple-cart!) Yes I guess the modelling of the Connie (and many other multi-engine airliners) is much more complex than the single-engine GA aircraft and may very well justify a higher price. I'm not into that category of aircraft, so my rant was more related to small single-engine aircraft. Should have been more specific, sorry.

DCS is almost a full-time job, just starting something like the A-10 Warthog or Mirage 2000 can take 10-15 minutes. There is a free-flight option which plonks you into the sky with all systems running, and you can get a taste of what the aircraft is all about without the learning curve, but that is just scratching the surface. But I guess the real point is that DCS World is not an option for most people who fly civilian aircraft and therefore a different set of rules govern their perception of "value". I understand and respect that, but I just don't buy into it.

Please give details of where we can get the freeware Viggen for FSX. I'm guessing it is an old Alphasim conversion?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, rooitou said:

If DCS ever move over to civilian flight sims, they will really upset the apple-cart!

Well it seems that apple cart is upset because there is a Christen Eagle (AKA Aviat Eagle) coming for DCS world, being made by Magnitude 3, who were responsible for creating the MiG-21 BIS for DCS World.

Not everyone it seems is thrilled about a non combat aeroplane being created for DCS World from what I can gather, however I suppose one could view the Eagle as a suitable aerobatic trainer for military pilots since the real Eagle was designed to compete with the Pitts S2A, and the Pitts S2A was indeed used by a military display team - The Royal Jordanian Falcons, although they now use Extra 300s.

But the RJF is a bit unusual in that although the RJF pilots are indeed selected from the RJAF, the RJF's aeroplanes are owned and maintained by Royal Jordanian Airlines as part of a joint venture with the military as a means to promote goodwill and interest in Jordan, largely as a result of King Hussein's orders, since he was an enthusiastic military and civilian pilot himself.

So I suppose the Christen Eagle, in lieu of a Pitts S2A, does have a kind of vaguely military use as an advanced aerobatic and formation flying trainer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 26/12/2017 at 1:14 PM, rooitou said:

Please give details of where we can get the freeware Viggen for FSX. I'm guessing it is an old Alphasim conversion?

You are correct, sir!

https://library.avsim.net/zipdiver.php?DLID=195402

I also found a sound pack to enhance it, but cannot recall where it came from (no readme) : JA37 thunderpack.

I wasn't directly questioning your opinion rooitou, just more of a general question regarding justifying the price of the Connie due to the amount of non-eye-candy work which has gone into it.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I think the A2A aircraft are worth every penny.  I enjoy a number of Carenado aircraft but comparisons between A2A aircraft and Carenado are missing the point.  Carenado aircraft consist of a beautiful set of textures, along with (usually) mediocre sounds and more or less 'default' level systems.  A2A long term rent (or already own) every real world aircraft that they're planning to simulate.  They go through them with a fine tooth comb, record the sounds of every switch, etc.  Systems representation is unmatched for the GA FS sector.

Don't need or want that level of detail?  No problem, save some cash and buy Alabeo/Carenado!  ... but that doesn't mean that the A2A products aren't value for money. Just that they're not for everyone.

Incidentally, A2A price their P3D products in line with the LM licencing options.  However, their academic and professional versions aren't in any way 'locked' to the respective versions of P3D.   I am not suggesting anyone deliberately buy or use the 'wrong' version; but it is perfectly possible that someone may own a P3D Professional licence, but require a A2A product solely for purposes that match the academic licence. 

Lastly, comparisons between P3D addons and anything to do with DCS are again missing the mark;   you could write all day about DCS's ability to drop bombs here and there, dogfight with your mates, and drop armaments over Berlin in 1941 ...... but for those utterly disinterested in military/combat aviation, DCS doesn't come close to comparing with P3D. No worldwide coverage, and.... well I don't think I need to continue with the lack of provision in DCS for GA/commercial flight sim enthusiasts.  (Not even a criticism of DCS - it's supposed to be limited to military and combat flight).

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, JYW said:

Don't need or want that level of detail?  No problem, save some cash and buy Alabeo/Carenado!  ... but that doesn't mean that the A2A products aren't value for money. Just that they're not for everyone.

I agree that A2A offer great value in GA aircraft (perhaps the most value today), but I'll submit that A2A is still the better choice over Carebeo.  Since the A2A products can easily be set to operate at the level of detail of Carebeo, it's pretty easy to set the former to fly off after the CTRL E combo.  And then on the next flight the A2A birds can be set-up to be much more immersive.  The best of both worlds!

Greg

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have avoided A2A and similar aircraft with custom coded avionics for a long time, because they have problems with my Saitek and VRInsight panels. But at some point I wanted to operate the aircraft, not my hardware panels, so by now I'm using more of the VC and less of the hardware. This opened up a new world for me, including A2A aircraft! But I still enjoy my Carenado C337, probably because A2A (or JustFlight or Milviz or Flysimware) did not make one (yet!?).

A bigger monitor certainly helps with using more of the VC :)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now