Hawaiian Airport Codes?

[clements 4]

So, I decided to have some fun with MSFS and take my Bonanza A36 down to Hawaii for a while. I had just downloaded FSGenesis' 9.6m Hawaii Mesh and Landclass and thought it might be fun to do some island hopping. Unfortunately, the airport codes for the Hawaii have thrown me off. Depending upon the program I'm using the airports in the area seem to have many different For example, Kalaeloa field (also known as John Rogers Field) might be listed as with the FAA as JRF or a variety of ICAO codes. For example, FSBuild knows this airport as PHNA, my RealityXP Garamin 430 knows it as PHJR, and MSFS seesm to know it as KJRF. Now, Kalaeloa seems to be particularly funky but as I poke around, it seems like most Hawaiian airports have both a Kxxx designation as well as a PHxx designation. Can anyone shed some light on why this is? And how I can safely build flight plans that work across a variety of add-ons? Thanks.Bob

[tf51d 284]

Sounds like you have a problem with your FS installation. Probably an old scenery not completely removed. Hawaii should only have PXXX designations. KXXX are for the Mainland US.

[Guest dswo]

Here are the airports as listed the default FS9 database. Most but by no means all start with PH (for "Pacific Hawaii"; cf. PA for "Pacific Alaska). None begins with K.City ICAO NameHakalau HI02 PeleauHana PHHN HanaHanalei HI01 PrincevilleHanamaulu HI03 Hanamaulu AirstripHanapepe PAK Port AllenHawi PHUP UpoluHilo PHTO Hilo IntlHonokaa HI05 Honokaa AirstripHonolulu PHNL Honolulu IntlHonolulu NPS Ford Island NALFKahuku Z29G KahukuKahului PHOG KahuluiKailua/Kona HI13 Puu Waa Waa RanchKailua-Kona PHKO Kona Intl At KeaholeKamuela PHMU Waimea-KohalaKapolei PHJR Kalaeloa (John Rodgers Field)Kauai PHBK Barking Sands PmrfKaunakakai PHMK MolokaiKaunakakai HI49 PandaKaupuleu 92Z KaupuleuKure Atol HI99 Sand IslandLahaina JHM Kapalua-WestLanai PHNY Lanai CityLihue PHLI LihueMokapu XBEL Bellows AFBMokapu PHNG Kaneohe Bay MCAFMolokai PHLU Kalaupapa Apt.Mountain View HI23 Mountain View AirstripNaalehu HI25 Kaalaiki AirstripOahu PHDH DillinghamPaauilo HI27 Upper Paauilo AirstripPahala HI29 Upper PaauauPahala HI28 Pahala AirstripPapaikou HI31 Mauna Kea-HonoliiPepeekeo HI32 Pepeekeo AirstripPohakuloa PHSF Bradshaw AAFPuhi HI46 Hi 23 AirstripPuhi HI33 Haiku AirstripTern I. PHFS Tern I.Wahiawa PHHI Wheeler AAF

[clements 4]

Fair enough. I guess my question is broader than just FS. Go to http://www.naco.faa.gov/digital_tpp.asp?ve...&end=05-11-2006. This is the government website. Search on PHJR. No result. Search on KJRF and you get John Rodgers. According to the government, there are no PHxx airports in Hawaii. What's the disconnect?Bob

[scott967 62]

Believe Honolulu Airport was initally named John Rodgers. Meanwhile the Barbers Point Naval Air Station was closed and the tenants (other than the Coast Guard Air Station) moved to Marine Corps Base Kaneohe Bay. They then renamed the base Kalaeloa (Barbers Point being isufficiently Hawaiian) but also took up the John Rodgers field name again. With the change, the Ford Island strip also was closed and all GA activity moved to PHJR (they used to do touch and goes at Ford Is).Note that West Maui now has an ICAO identifier PHJH assigned but FS9 doesn't know about this. Also French Frigate Shoals I think is now HFS but again not in FS9.scott s..

[Guest dswo]

>Fair enough. I guess my question is broader than just FS. >Go to>http://www.naco.faa.gov/digital_tpp.asp?ve...&end=05-11-2006.> This is the government website. Search on PHJR. No result. >Search on KJRF and you get John Rodgers. According to the>government, there are no PHxx airports in Hawaii. What's the>disconnect?Many Hawaii airports have two codes: the ICAO (international) code and the domestic. E.g., when you fly to Hilo, the ICAO code is PHTO but your bag tag will read ITO. If you fly to Kahului, the ICAO code is PHOG, but your bag tag will read OGG (for Captain J. Hogg, one of Hawaii's first commercial pilots). You'll notice that the ICAO variations are limited to two letters (PH + xx), but the domestic codes have three (xxx).Here's a list of equivalencies, with the ICAO code in parentheses:BKH (PHBK) .................. PMRF Barking Sands, KauaiHDH (PHDH).................. Dillingham Airfield, OahuHHI (PHHI)..................... Wheeler AAF, OahuHIK (PHIK)..................... Hickam AFB, OahuHNL (PHNL)................... Honolulu International Airport, OahuHNM (PHHN)................. Hana Airport, MauiHI

[clements 4]

David, thanks for a great response.Bob

[RFields5421 1]

Flight Simulator is one thing - the real world is another.While the United States and Europe and some other countries in Asia and Oceana are well documented and fairly accurate in FS, some parts of the world are not.Many of the "ICAO" codes in FS are made up and probably have no relationship to the code used in the host country, if an airport code is actually used at all.A key point to remember about FS2004 - the ICAO code is not really an ICAO code. It is a unique computer programming code which must be unique for every airport worldwide - and there must be only one computer programming code for each airport.The ICAO is a very useful code to use - but not a requirement.Almost every country has multiple levels of airports - international and major airports which will be registered with ICAO, and often IATA. These will have formal designations and be mostly consistent in the ICAO database; and local airports which have designators assigned by the local government.Many airports in the US have codes assigned by the STATE government. After the FAA took over for the CAB, they just have not gotten around to redesignating all of them.Many of the airports in Arkansas were redesignated since FS2004 came out. The nation of Indonesia has been redesignating their airports - the famous WRRR for Bali International at Denspasar was replaced by WADD over a year ago. :-(Here is a description of the changes in Indonesia and you will note that the reason for the rework and elimination of the WR codes is an improvement to the country communications sytems. http://www.icao.int/icao/en/ro/apac/2004/atn_tf06/ip09.pdfOne poster has already mentioned the Barbers Point / John Rogers issue - common, but not always the case when an airport is transferred from military to civilian control.There is another airport / code in Hawaii not mentioned - PHIK - Hickam AFB - but that just a different part of the ramp at PHNL. However it is a valid ICAO code which appears in military flight plans.The K designation for Hawaii - I have been told but cannot verify - came about many years back when the FAA started changing airport designations to match them with the radio station designations.The K comes from the designations of call letters for US radio stations - and airport control towers have radio station licenses with assigned designatons.While W is used for most commerical radio and TV east of the Mississippi river - airports and airport related weather stations have almost always been assinged the letter K.ICAO codes in the US mostly match the radio station call letters of the airport tower licenses. ICAO country codes mostly match the radio station country codes worldwide.Radio and TV stations in Hawaii use a K for their call signs. However, while the K designations worked well to match the airport three letter FAA code with the airport radio, they did not fit into the ICAO "map" of the world - where the letters are PH.Yes it's a messy world out there. What did you expect - governments are in charge.But don't let the confusion bother you - fly in FS2004 and don't worrry about the many other possible, or possibly realistic, designations for the airport.

[Guest]

I've yet to encounter a "fictional" ICAO code in FS.Not all the codes used are in fact ICAO codes, as especially in the US (and some military fields elsewhere) many smaller fields don't have one.In those cases the locally used code is used instead.Of course sometimes these codes change, which might cause the code you find in FS to be different from the one currently in use in the real world.Sometimes airports also close, and some of those codes are later reused elsewhere (which can lead to confusion, with an airport in FS having a code that in reality now is used for another airport).

[scott967 62]

>>Radio and TV stations in Hawaii use a K for their call signs.>However, while the K designations worked well to match the>airport three letter FAA code with the airport radio, they did>not fit into the ICAO "map" of the world - where the letters>are PH.KHNL is a TV station - channel 13.scott s..