Oil Temperature After Engine Start

[G-YMML1 582]

Ok,

 

it's much more serious that I though as all planes, T7/747/NGX are affected. I'm loading a plane with default panel state as it was suggested below, then I kill engines and the stuff (I know the drill I have had 3 NGXs since 2003), save my own panel - DT. Then I load a plane, load DT panel state, uplift fuel and cargo and start my routine. When I start engine I'm getting low oil temperature on the LEFT engine (the same happens with T7, NGX and 747) and as a I result of that left engine isn't operatable and my flight is dead. Here are two screens from NGX as well. I can do the same screens for either T7  or 747 again 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zeb6690facp8im1/Capture.JPG?dl=0



https://www.dropbox.com/s/g7irtmf7d91us2h/Capture2.JPG?dl=0

[G-YMML1 582]

I have had all three birds in 4.1 since August I almost have not had with them until recently. Totally crazy error that I have never seen before!

What I replaced recently are the latest FSUIPS and ai_player.dll to increase the speed of AI. Perhaps is FSUIPS that has effect on the engines' oil temperature on a start-up? Reinstall is not a solution here. 

[G-YMML1 582]

On 1/2/2018 at 10:31 AM, Olympic260 said:

Dmitriy,

 

Long Turn is not the default panel state. Default Panel state is the one named default and is the one with engines running. Please load this, shutdown the aircraft at the state you want and save this to a new panel state. Use the new one from now on to see if the issue is there.

Chris,

The issue hasn't gone away as I described in the post above. Need some ideas to sort these things out.

 

Best Regards

Dmitriy Toropov

[Olympic260 415]

2 minutes ago, G-YMML1 said:

Chris,

The issue hasn't gone away as I described in the post above. Need some ideas to sort these things out.

 

Best Regards

Dmitriy Toropov

If you start with default panel state when the plane loads does it has the same behavior or the oit temps are normal?

[G-YMML1 582]

7 minutes ago, Olympic260 said:

If you start with default panel state when the plane loads does it has the same behavior or the oit temps are normal?

Nope, the temperatures are abnormal as it shown on two of my screenshots. Here is the flow of the events that happen randomly on all PMDG planes during start-up phase. 

I have GSX, FSUIPS and FS2Crew for each of PMDG planes, hence I'm using FS2crew during the normal start-up as I have been doing these steps for ~400 issue-free flights with PMDG in recent 3 years.

1. Create my own panel state from Default Panel with the engines running. Call it DT 

2. Load the flight, put NGX on a stand at EDDF, load "DT@ panel state, load 500lb of fuel and required payload (MAX)

3. Save the flight situation, exit P3D

4. Load P3D, load previously saved flight situation. Load ASN and historic weather, activate traffic. That's all!

5. Activate GSX (fueling, catering,,loading) + IRS turns on

6. FS2Crew reads PF checklist and DEP Briefing,

7. GSX Services ended, FP is loaded into FMC. All set to go!

8. Starting Pushback with GSX and FS2Crew

9. Right Engine Starts, N2 reaches 25%, fuel flow starts, engine is running, OIL Temp = OK,  meaning that the Right Engine is fine now

10. Left Engine Starts, N2 Reaches 25%, fuel flow starts, engine is running, HOWEVER Oli Temp is 4C (as well as outside temperature) and does not increase, EGT indicator for LE does not move together with the throttles, no fuel injects into LE even though the engine itself is running. After 10 minutes nothing has changed

11. End of the route. Period.

 

...Again, exactly the same scenario happens with ALL 3 PMDG birds and in 100% occasions only LEFT engine is affected. I would have agree that it's my mistake if I haven't been completed almost 400 flights in P3D with NGX birds since April 2015 using exactly the same set of ammunition - FS2Crew, ASN and GSX and had zero issues. I had CTD, other performance issues, but not like this one.

The above-mentioned behavior started to occur approximately in November time, when I installed new FSUIPS and replaced ai-player.dll default file with the new one that increases taxiing speed of AI. 

Finally, I don't believe that it has something to do with the panel states as I don't get any display errors explicitly. It's merely a functionality issue.

WOuld really appreciate your help

Dmitriy Toropov 

[kevinh 409]

The fact that it’s happening to all your PMDG aircraft makes it more likely it’s an external cause. They wouldn’t all develop the same problem at once.

I would disable all of the additions, GSX, FS2Crew and FSUIPC, and see if the oil temp problem persists. If it’s fixed then it’s a problem with interaction with one of these addons. Reintroduce them one at a time to see what causes the issue.

[Olympic260 415]

25 minutes ago, G-YMML1 said:

Nope, the temperatures are abnormal as it shown on two of my screenshots. Here is the flow of the events that happen randomly on all PMDG planes during start-up phase. 

I have GSX, FSUIPS and FS2Crew for each of PMDG planes, hence I'm using FS2crew during the normal start-up as I have been doing these steps for ~400 issue-free flights with PMDG in recent 3 years.

1. Create my own panel state from Default Panel with the engines running. Call it DT 

2. Load the flight, put NGX on a stand at EDDF, load "DT@ panel state, load 500lb of fuel and required payload (MAX)

3. Save the flight situation, exit P3D

4. Load P3D, load previously saved flight situation. Load ASN and historic weather, activate traffic. That's all!

5. Activate GSX (fueling, catering,,loading) + IRS turns on

6. FS2Crew reads PF checklist and DEP Briefing,

7. GSX Services ended, FP is loaded into FMC. All set to go!

8. Starting Pushback with GSX and FS2Crew

9. Right Engine Starts, N2 reaches 25%, fuel flow starts, engine is running, OIL Temp = OK,  meaning that the Right Engine is fine now

10. Left Engine Starts, N2 Reaches 25%, fuel flow starts, engine is running, HOWEVER Oli Temp is 4C (as well as outside temperature) and does not increase, EGT indicator for LE does not move together with the throttles, no fuel injects into LE even though the engine itself is running. After 10 minutes nothing has changed

11. End of the route. Period.

 

...Again, exactly the same scenario happens with ALL 3 PMDG birds and in 100% occasions only LEFT engine is affected. I would have agree that it's my mistake if I haven't been completed almost 400 flights in P3D with NGX birds since April 2015 using exactly the same set of ammunition - FS2Crew, ASN and GSX and had zero issues. I had CTD, other performance issues, but not like this one.

The above-mentioned behavior started to occur approximately in November time, when I installed new FSUIPS and replaced ai-player.dll default file with the new one that increases taxiing speed of AI. 

Finally, I don't believe that it has something to do with the panel states as I don't get any display errors explicitly. It's merely a functionality issue.

WOuld really appreciate your help

Dmitriy Toropov 

Dmitriy,

 

Kevin replied first :) I suggest the same disable all the extra addons, I would start with FSUIPC and the dll you changed for starters.

 

And please make sure the planes are loaded with the default panel state, ie the one with engines running. Check with that panel state if the oil temps are normal.

[G-YMML1 582]

I would gladly agree with you, gents, but FSUIPS/GSX/FS2Crew combo is ubiquitous for PMDG owners and has been stable for years. Moreover, cannot remove FSUIPs as PROATC relies on it. 

4 minutes ago, Olympic260 said:

Dmitriy,

 

Kevin replied first :) I suggest the same disable all the extra addons, I would start with FSUIPC and the dll you changed for starters.

 

And please make sure the planes are loaded with the default panel state, ie the one with engines running. Check with that panel state if the oil temps are normal.

Yes, the oil temperature on the default panel start-up is normal. Again, low oil temperature is just one of many LE issues as the engine itself  is running, but cannot create a thrust as no fuel running into it. Honestly, I doubt that either FSUIPs or GSX might somehow affect PMDG internal programming.

Nevertheless, I will try as I have no choice

Dmitriy Toropov 

[Olympic260 415]

4 minutes ago, G-YMML1 said:

I would gladly agree with you, gents, but FSUIPS/GSX/FS2Crew combo is ubiquitous for PMDG owners and has been stable for years. Moreover, cannot remove FSUIPs as PROATC relies on it. 

Yes, the oil temperature on the default panel start-up is normal. Again, low oil temperature is just one of many LE issues as the engine itself  is running, but cannot create a thrust as no fuel running into it. Honestly, I doubt that either FSUIPs or GSX might somehow affect PMDG internal programming.

Nevertheless, I will try as I have no choice

Dmitriy Toropov 

Dmitriy,

When I asked you one hour ago "If you start with default panel state when the plane loads does it has the same behavior or the oit temps are normal?" you said "Nope, the temperatures are abnormal as it shown on two of my screenshots". Now you are saying that the temps on the default start up is normal.

 

If something is corrupted in FSUIPC.ini then these thinks can happen. Please remover both FSUIPC.ini and FSUIPC.dll from your modules folder. Start the sim and laod one of the planes in the default state. Observe the OIL temp. Connect external power and shutdown the engines. Save this panel state via the FMC. Close the sim. Close the sim and restart it. Select again the same plane with the default panel state. As soon as it loads load from the FMC the previous saved panel state and start the engines. Does the oil temp is normal?

 

 

 

 

 

[G-YMML1 582]

14 minutes ago, Olympic260 said:

Dmitriy,

When I asked you one hour ago "If you start with default panel state when the plane loads does it has the same behavior or the oit temps are normal?" you said "Nope, the temperatures are abnormal as it shown on two of my screenshots". Now you are saying that the temps on the default start up is normal.

 

If something is corrupted in FSUIPC.ini then these thinks can happen. Please remover both FSUIPC.ini and FSUIPC.dll from your modules folder. Start the sim and laod one of the planes in the default state. Observe the OIL temp. Connect external power and shutdown the engines. Save this panel state via the FMC. Close the sim. Close the sim and restart it. Select again the same plane with the default panel state. As soon as it loads load from the FMC the previous saved panel state and start the engines. Does the oil temp is normal?

 

 

 

 

 

Chris,
 

Sorry, perhaps it's language problem. My problem I mean.

 What do you mean by "Normal" oil temp? When I meant "abnormal" I implied that immediately after engine's start-up the oil temperature on the right engine is OK (see my screenshot), but on the left engine is not. See 4C vs. 92C

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zeb6690facp8im1/Capture.JPG?dl=0

And yes, when I load the plane with default panel state and both engines' running, then "yes" the oil temperatures are fine. 

Again, the issue only happens when I'm using full pre-flight routine from powering-up the plane, setting IRS, FMC and stuff and then starting the engines. In the default state with all engines' running, the oil temperatures are just fine to me as both engines have power and thrust. 

PS. Also, please see the VIB ratio. It's 0.5 for RE and 0.0 for LE. Why?!

[Olympic260 415]

8 minutes ago, G-YMML1 said:

Chris,
 

Sorry, perhaps it's language problem. My problem I mean.

 What do you mean by "Normal" oil temp? When I meant "abnormal" I implied that immediately after engine's start-up the oil temperature on the right engine is OK (see my screenshot), but on the left engine is not. See 4C vs. 92C

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zeb6690facp8im1/Capture.JPG?dl=0

And yes, when I load the plane with default panel state and both engines' running, then "yes" the oil temperatures are fine. 

Again, the issue only happens when I'm using full pre-flight routine from powering-up the plane, setting IRS, FMC and stuff and then starting the engines. In the default state with all engines' running, the oil temperatures are just fine to me as both engines have power and thrust. 

PS. Also, please see the VIB ratio. It's 0.5 for RE and 0.0 for LE. Why?!

Dmitriy, This 100% means that something is get corrupted in the way and hence you have this issue

 

Do the following please

 

1) Start the sim. On the select scenario screen you should have the default F22. Select a PMDG plane that you know you have the issue and load it on the default airport.

2) Make sure the plane is using the default panel state and everything is correct. Connect external power and engage it. Shut down the engines and save this panel state as TEST for example.

2) Close the sim completly

3) Restart the sim. Again the select scenario screen with the default F22 should be shown. Select the same PMDG plane and go to the airport of your choice.

4) As soon as it load, select and load the TEST panel state.

5) Start APU and start the engines at the stand. What is the result?

 

Basically you need to find out in which case the problem starts.

 

 

 

[G-YMML1 582]

Chris,

 

1. Does PMDG has internal logging or similar such as PATC or ASN or GSX have? This would help a lot, because as I said, my issue is random, but persistent, i.e it occurs in 75% of my normal flights in a recent month, i.e. it would be difficult to track the issue.

 

2. What should I do about FSUIPS? Competely wipe it out and reinstall or just delete *dll and "ini and then reinstall?

Thanks

Dmitriy 

[Olympic260 415]

6 minutes ago, G-YMML1 said:

Chris,

 

1. Does PMDG has internal logging or similar such as PATC or ASN or GSX have? This would help a lot, because as I said, my issue is random, but persistent, i.e it occurs in 75% of my normal flights in a recent month, i.e. it would be difficult to track the issue.

 

2. What should I do about FSUIPS? Competely wipe it out and reinstall or just delete *dll and "ini and then reinstall?

Thanks

Dmitriy 

Dmitriy,

No we do not have such internal logging,

 

For the FSUIPC, the first step will be to delete the fsuipc.ini and let FSUIPC rebuilt a new one on the next sim start. If this does not help then you need to try with FSUIPC completely removed

[Ephedrin 418]

Dmitriy,

one note regarding FSUIPC and PMDG: normally everything behaves well. But FSUIPC offers so many things that can be tuned and messed up with, so there can happen the „funniest“ things.

I once had issues with the 737 and the A2A Connie, both set up via FSUIPC. Kyle adviced me to remove the ini. After this everything worked. I don‘t know what has affected the issues but setting up a new ini file solved my problems (was a flaps issue). I don‘t know what your addons do to FSUIPC but it might be a minor thing you would never think of.  

You don‘t even have to delete the files, just move them out of the modules folder.

[G-YMML1 582]

24 minutes ago, Olympic260 said:

Dmitriy,

No we do not have such internal logging,

 

For the FSUIPC, the first step will be to delete the fsuipc.ini and let FSUIPC rebuilt a new one on the next sim start. If this does not help then you need to try with FSUIPC completely removed

Ok,

I will test both suggestions and report back.

Thanks again for your support and patience.

 

Dmitriy