"So I think an appology to "Phantomflyer" would be in place here ."I agree, stuff like this is what makes freeware designers leave the community. All he did was give to the community. I don't see how some of you see this as a bad thing, you make him sound evil almost. I say you should lighten up and give the guy an apology, it's not like he was making money off of someone else's work. Just my opinion.

>So I think an appology to "Phantomflyer" would be in place>here .>>Regards, Rob BarendregtHi,You can not be serious. Should I apologise to someone who uses a bitmap from someone he doesn

>"So I think an appology to "Phantomflyer" would be in place>here .">>I agree, stuff like this is what makes freeware designers>leave the community. All he did was give to the community. I>don't see how some of you see this as a bad thing, you make>him sound evil almost. I say you should lighten up and give>the guy an apology, it's not like he was making money off of>someone else's work. Just my opinion.Personally, I think Steffan should be banned from AVSIM for his libel. This is far from the first time he's "crossed the line" of propriety here.Fr. Bill

My appologies to you Bill Alexander, if my remarks was interpreted as harsh. As an author myself, I know that it may be confusing regarding all copyright terms in this hobby.However, my standpoint is still the same. What ever you release, make very clear who is the original authors of the work you are using. And in this case there are many persons involved. My own rules when I was an active author was. "Never even think of releasing something if I didn

>Personally, I think Steffan should be banned from AVSIM for>his libel. This is far from the first time he's "crossed the>line" of propriety here.>>Fr. BillAmen to that Bill. :-waveAnd I wonder if Eaglesoft considder the copyright issue as a minor thing. :-rollhttp://www.scandicair.com/images/sa_banner.gifI :-erks on DELL,...And that is an understatement. :-hahMy specs are:Dell Dimension 4600 P4/2.8 at 3.0 Ghz1024 Mb DDR333 Dual channel memory (2x256,1x512)256 Mb ATI Radeon X850 Pro ViVo, flashed to a X850 XT PE. Catalyst 5.9ATITool V0.24DirectX 9.0cW XP Home with SP2E171FPb Flat panel monitor 17"370Gb HD (120 GB Maxtor, 250GB Samsung) 7200rpm ATA Lacie 250Gb Extern HD

Hello Staffan,You are still missing my point.Since Bill Alexander's panel is based on Tom Dennis' upload, he had absolutely no way of knowing who the original creator of that bitmap was untill you told him here in this thread.And since nobody has made any remarks about Tom's upload (which is allready a long time here in the library), and Tom's README and licence remarks do not forbit re-use of that panel as long as it remains freeware, in my view Bill Alexander did absolutely nothing wrong. Period.But let's agree to disagree.I just hope that your remarks have not put off someone that started making contributions to our hobby with enthousiasme. Because that would be ashame.Regards, Rob Barendregt

"I wonder if Eaglesoft considder the copyright issue as a minor thing."I speak for Eaglesoft and will say that we view copyright issues as nearly sacred....Mistakes do happen [as in this thread] and the resolution of mistakes should be handled between the parties involved and wherever possible, be handled privately....There is no need for public humiliation over an honest mistake...and there is certainly no need for the "community members" to participate in another long "accusatory and critical" thread...

>But let's agree to disagree.>I just hope that your remarks have not put off someone that>started making contributions to our hobby with enthousiasme.>Because that would be ashame.>>Regards, Rob BarendregtHi Rob,I agree to that. And that is why I hope Bill Alexander will accept my appologies.And to be honet, I have never seen Toms edit of Erics panel before.In general, the fact still remains,...It is NOT ok to "borrow" parts without permission, even if it is ment for freeware. And that is NOT ment for Bill in particular,..but as I sad,..in general.http://www.scandicair.com/images/sa_banner.gifI :-erks on DELL,...And that is an understatement. :-hahMy specs are:Dell Dimension 4600 P4/2.8 at 3.0 Ghz1024 Mb DDR333 Dual channel memory (2x256,1x512)256 Mb ATI Radeon X850 Pro ViVo, flashed to a X850 XT PE. Catalyst 5.9ATITool V0.24DirectX 9.0cW XP Home with SP2E171FPb Flat panel monitor 17"370Gb HD (120 GB Maxtor, 250GB Samsung) 7200rpm ATA Lacie 250Gb Extern HD

>In general, the fact still remains,...It is NOT ok to "borrow">parts without permission, even if it is ment for freeware. And>that is NOT ment for Bill in particular,..but as I sad,..in>general.You're quite correct Staffan and there's no point in anyone pleading ignorance over this. If someone wants to use anything created by another person, they at the very least need to be able to show they tried to get permission.In the case of re-using EE's MD panel, a simple screenshot and the question "does anyone know who the original author of this is?", would have had a reply posted within 10 minutes!Greatest Airliners - DC-8Greatest Airliners - 727 Whisperjethttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...BANNER_PAUL.jpg

You shouldn't feel too bad about this Bill.At the end of the day, the use of the bitmap from another upload has caused the problem so both you and even more so, Tom Dennis, are in the wrong. So what, I've done it more than once myself! I ended up saying sorry and moving forward.Having put this together, you'll have some idea how much time is involved, especially when startng with a blank screen and it's for that very reason that when you make a mistake like this, you'll have to take some flack. In this particular case, I really do feel for you as it's obvious that you've taken what somebody else has done as being OK, when it really wasn't - especially with such an easily recognized bitmap!Keep smiling and get on with the next project.P.S. Guess my first release....................a 757 based on Eric Earnst's 767 panel - mine won an Avsim Blue Ribbon that year and his went on to evolve into Level D 767. I had diner with him a few years ago and he was still miffed that I got the Avsim award, though god knows why after releasing PIC767 and then being involved with LD too!!!Dreamfleet Project ManagerGreatest Airliners - DC-8Greatest Airliners - 727 Whisperjethttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...BANNER_PAUL.jpg

Staffan,I received your email and sent a reply accepting your apologies. Here I will copy and paste my reply because a lot has been going on in the background here, including (now that I have established contact with Tom Dennis because of this thread - I have tried to find him for weeks before this all started to ask for his permission, just as I asked Rob Berendregt), I have now FORMALLY asked Tom for his permission. As well as that, our library manager Rick Rossner, emailed me to say that I may upload the file (with fixes people missed out on because the file got pulled off the shelf before I could even post the fix!) when I get Tom's permission. Anyway, here is that email:OK Staffan, I accept your apology. I never hold a grudge. But Tom Dennis didn't steal Eric's panel. He had Eric's permission as part of a team project to re-do the original panel. This hobby we all share is supposed to be relaxing and fun. I do regret that things turned out the way they did. Communication was the main problem because I tried very hard to contact Tom, but like so many people, his email address changed. Anyway, Thanks for your apology . I'm glad we can all put this event behind us. I have learned a lot from this experience - believe me!! It was my first ever attempt at making a panel. Kind Regards,Bill Alexander private email removed In reply to Paul Golding just above this, I tried for weeks to find not only Eric Ernst but also Tom Dennis, I could include all the emails I sent out in that regard here but it would take a week to read it all, not to mention the amount of space - yes Paul, I did (your quote)"at the very least need to show that they tried to get permission" - I showed all the emails with inquiries to all that needed to know. If you really want to see my efforts, Paul, or anyone else, for that matter, just leave the message in my inbox with your email addy and I will show you what I did. Just one last thing, as Rob Berendregt said, I had all the permission I needed anyway because Tom included the General User License - effectively making it (in my interpretation) freely distributable as "public domain". It was mentioned above that it is a jungle when trying to interpret these licenses. I was genuinely trying to do my best to help the fs community and, had I not gotten so much support by email - all of which would be too much to include here, I would have quit trying only 4 months after beginning to try! This has been a heck of a learning experience for me, of which its associated stress nearly "broke my spirit". In closing, I just received an email from Tom Dennis before posting this of which I show an exerpt :"I was involved in a few payware projects and I find freeware more rewarding by far. I should have let it die when I saw it afterall its been a few years since its been released and for another fs platform anyways. Sorry again about this send me the link I will post when I get home from work" - so let's leave the next space in this thread for Tom. He deserves a lot of credit. We all should try to meet and have a beer (unless you're a teetotaler!), shake hands, and be friends because this hobby is what we all have in common. I'm very tired and even a little sad that this happened. There are things about me you don't even know and vice versa because all we have is our words. Try to remember that we are humans. Be happy with the time we have to enjoy life.My kindest regards to all,Bill Alexander - PS - I love your panels Paul!!

I recieved permission after fact but EE was aware and didnt really care that much. Actually he liked my re edit of the bmp. I tried to find out who was the author similiar to williams attempts. I don't take credit for the whole thing as stated in my readme. I made no money off of it and there werent that many downloads of it anyways. I edited it for a friend as a team effort and I dont even use the panel. William I am sorry this happened to you. I re edited the bmp to my tastes it was no longer EE bmp it had been edited to something diferent. I could have reuploaded the file once I found the org author but I chose not to. Steffan you have allot of time on your hands. There was no intent of harm or malice. I wasnt trying to pull a fast one. I edited a panel for my liking and the others who wanted it end of story. Staffen you dont have a patent on the circle, shading, gauge housings, etc. You scare away novice designers with your endless rants of copywrite. My re edit of EE md 80 panel did not line me up from a job designing for Microsoft. It allowed me to fly an MD80 on my personal computer and a few other Virtual pilots to enjoy it as well. Thats in my opinion all that happened. If anyone edits any of my designs and notes my contirbutins in their readme I consider it a tribute to my original work or edits. I don't cry FOUL. You may be a better designer than I but I think you're not having enough fun with this free hobby.

>Bill Alexander - PS - I love your panels Paul!!Thanks Bill, and I hope we see more from you.Dreamfleet Project ManagerGreatest Airliners - DC-8Greatest Airliners - 727 Whisperjethttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...BANNER_PAUL.jpg

Hi Tom,I am fine,...and how are you...?>You scare away novice designers with your endless rants of copywrite.I don