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Pineapple_Wizard

Landing the 777, what's going on?

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6 hours ago, downscc said:

Gentlemen, the FCTM has a chapter on landing with pages of information including charts. Do your homework.

Dan,

Was that addressed to me?

blaustern


I Earned My Spurs in Vietnam

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Hi guys,

This is how it look likes.

It's clearly something wrong in the flight dynamics. Look at how the speed is increasing while the A/T is in retard mode.

I had to brake manually for the nose to come down.


Alf DAGNON - Flight enthusiast

VA France - AF024

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Now THAT looks exactly like the confirmed issue with the 744.

Have a look yourself:

 


Cheers Henrik K.

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never had ANYTHING like that with the 777 while I can reproduce the 747 issue. 

how do you load into the 777? 


,

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With respect to the 777 being easy to land.....I have noticed that this plane does not seem to flare quite as easily as the 737 or 747. I actually disengage AutoThrottle at 1000 feet (just like I do with the other two planes), but I appreciate that this is probably not normal procedure.

I just thought that I would mention it :smile:


Christopher Low

UK2000 Beta Tester

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3 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

With respect to the 777 being easy to land.....I have noticed that this plane does not seem to flare quite as easily as the 737 or 747. I actually disengage AutoThrottle at 1000 feet (just like I do with the other two planes), but I appreciate that this is probably not normal procedure.

I just thought that I would mention it :smile:

It‘s has always been a good manner to disconnect the AT flying airplanes with underwing engines. But since the 777 has fly by wire that automatically corrects the pitch movement when changing thrust it‘s not required to be turned off anymore. 

To be honest I have absolutely no problems with the 777. flaring it just means you increase the pitch just a little, and let it sit onto the runway...

„flare“ is -in my opinion - the wrong expression on all airliners anyway. You flare small props like a C172... or gliders. Hold them just slightly above the runway and let them fall and settle down just before they stall... if you did that with a 737 or 777 you would float for ages and strike the tail on every landing. You actually just reduce the decent rate and fly it onto the runway. With the correct speed it will stay there. But it‘s normal that you have to push the nose down a little in the 777. At least that‘s what Cpt Ashcraft says in the Airline2Sim training videos. I‘ve never attempted to land a real 777... only the 172 and gliders 😇


,

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Bumping this thread- I have been experiencing this as well with the 777 and it is very annoying. By the book numbers and I am confident there are no problems with methods, but it's like the plane just skips and skips (at idle thrust) until I force the nose down. I am sure it would skip all the way down and off a 12,000ft runway if I let it. Autothrottle in RETARD mode and it skips back and forth between NO VSPDS and VREF on the speed tape as this is taking place. Our ACARS also registers all (or most) of these as bounces.

This is odd because I have put quite a bit of time on the 777 since I bought it when released, and this is something that has been happening in the last few months or so. I'll see if I can post a video of it happening later tonight or tomorrow from in the cockpit. I stream on Twitch every so often and this has stopped me from doing so. Hopefully someone can find a solution or maybe PMDG can confirm/comment.


Thanks!
Nick Crate
Chief Executive Officer
FedEx Virtual Air Cargo

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I agree with Marc, flown correctly the problem with nose gear settling goes away.  Nothing has changed to the flight dynamics of this product in the last few months or so...., not sure why there are very few folks that complain of this. I'm not sure I'd know how to reproduce the problem other than to come in too fast and over rotate.


Dan Downs KCRP

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28 minutes ago, downscc said:

I agree with Marc, flown correctly the problem with nose gear settling goes away.  Nothing has changed to the flight dynamics of this product in the last few months or so...., not sure why there are very few folks that complain of this. I'm not sure I'd know how to reproduce the problem other than to come in too fast and over rotate.

The problem is not the settling of the nose gear.... Kindly re-read the descriptions of what we are describing. I’m neither coming in too fast, nor over-rotating. In fact, I’ve tried landing with minimal flare to really plant the mains and it still happens. It may not be happening in your environment, but there are some of us that are experiencing it and that’s why we are posting here to see if anyone else has found a solution. I tend to lean toward something else causing this to happen but have been unable to narrow down what exactly it may be. I do not have this problem at all in the NGX.


Thanks!
Nick Crate
Chief Executive Officer
FedEx Virtual Air Cargo

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4 hours ago, FDX016 - Nick said:

The problem is not the settling of the nose gear.... Kindly re-read the descriptions of what we are describing. I’m neither coming in too fast, nor over-rotating. In fact, I’ve tried landing with minimal flare to really plant the mains and it still happens. It may not be happening in your environment, but there are some of us that are experiencing it and that’s why we are posting here to see if anyone else has found a solution. I tend to lean toward something else causing this to happen but have been unable to narrow down what exactly it may be. I do not have this problem at all in the NGX.

I did reread your description and there were no details, only that you are not planting the aircraft and have an unequal number of landings and takeoffs.  FCTM 6.8 is a good place to go for a review of 777 landing technique.  As for gust correction, anything added to Vref+5 should be washed out by landing where you should be at Vref+0 (pg 6.9).  For each 5 kts added for gust or whatever, the attitude should be decreased by a degree.  Mains touching down should coincide with throttles closing (autothrottle starts retard at 25 AGL).  Flare is 2-3 deg and you should be watching the far end of the runway to adjust rotation so that you don't float.

No one wants to hear that they have problems with their pilotage, but if you are bouncing the 777 and having problems with nose gear remaining in the air then there is room for improvement.


Dan Downs KCRP

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3 hours ago, downscc said:

I did reread your description and there were no details, only that you are not planting the aircraft and have an unequal number of landings and takeoffs.  FCTM 6.8 is a good place to go for a review of 777 landing technique.  As for gust correction, anything added to Vref+5 should be washed out by landing where you should be at Vref+0 (pg 6.9).  For each 5 kts added for gust or whatever, the attitude should be decreased by a degree.  Mains touching down should coincide with throttles closing (autothrottle starts retard at 25 AGL).  Flare is 2-3 deg and you should be watching the far end of the runway to adjust rotation so that you don't float.

No one wants to hear that they have problems with their pilotage, but if you are bouncing the 777 and having problems with nose gear remaining in the air then there is room for improvement.

Dan,

While I appreciate the efforts, I will not accept that it is a methods issue. If you land something, no matter what, hundreds of times and then all the sudden something happens that makes it act differently EVERY time, then you notice it. I've noticed this and it is not normal. I believe there is something (like an addon I have) interfering with the touchdown process and the plane does not bounce, rather skips indefinitely on the mains until the nose contacts the ground.

I'm going to do a flight with it now to try to recreate it and post the video afterwards so it makes more sense.


Thanks!
Nick Crate
Chief Executive Officer
FedEx Virtual Air Cargo

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Ok interestingly enough it did not happen to me on the flight I just tried despite happening on the last three flights at least. I was able to find it in one my past streams. If you click on the link below, it should put you at the 1:23:15 mark of the video on short final. (sidenote: I know I was high on this approach and landed long. Overlook that for now haha)

Click here

You can see in the video that the speed tape swaps back and forth a few times as if the squat switches are going back and forth from ground to air rapidly. From the moment you hear the spoilers deploy, I am holding a button that I have bound to quickly, repeatedly press F2 in order to get reverse thrust. You can see it will not unlock the reversers until the nose is well on the ground.


Thanks!
Nick Crate
Chief Executive Officer
FedEx Virtual Air Cargo

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6 hours ago, downscc said:

I did reread your description and there were no details, only that you are not planting the aircraft and have an unequal number of landings and takeoffs.  FCTM 6.8 is a good place to go for a review of 777 landing technique.  As for gust correction, anything added to Vref+5 should be washed out by landing where you should be at Vref+0 (pg 6.9).  For each 5 kts added for gust or whatever, the attitude should be decreased by a degree.  Mains touching down should coincide with throttles closing (autothrottle starts retard at 25 AGL).  Flare is 2-3 deg and you should be watching the far end of the runway to adjust rotation so that you don't float.

No one wants to hear that they have problems with their pilotage, but if you are bouncing the 777 and having problems with nose gear remaining in the air then there is room for improvement.

If there's no problem on this aircraft, you could easily explain why on the above video the speed increase after touchdown in retard mode (starting at 125 kts, and rising until 130 kts), and what physic make the aircraft perfectly stable with the nose up like this. I'm pretty sure that the lift of the wing should decrease after touchdown with the engines in retard mode ...


Alf DAGNON - Flight enthusiast

VA France - AF024

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5 minutes ago, AF024 said:

If there's no problem on this aircraft, you could easily explain why on the above video the speed increase after touchdown in retard mode (starting at 125 kts, and rising until 130 kts), and what physic make the aircraft perfectly stable with the nose up like this. I'm pretty sure that the lift of the wing should decrease after touchdown with the engines in retard mode ...

Is your above video in replay mode? It is interesting that there have been similar accounts with 747 folks.

I still believe an addon is causing some sort of interference. What other non-aircraft addons do you have?


Thanks!
Nick Crate
Chief Executive Officer
FedEx Virtual Air Cargo

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17 hours ago, FDX016 - Nick said:

Ok interestingly enough it did not happen to me on the flight I just tried despite happening on the last three flights at least. I was able to find it in one my past streams. If you click on the link below, it should put you at the 1:23:15 mark of the video on short final. (sidenote: I know I was high on this approach and landed long. Overlook that for now haha)

Click here

You can see in the video that the speed tape swaps back and forth a few times as if the squat switches are going back and forth from ground to air rapidly. From the moment you hear the spoilers deploy, I am holding a button that I have bound to quickly, repeatedly press F2 in order to get reverse thrust. You can see it will not unlock the reversers until the nose is well on the ground.

You over rotated.. your rotation was at least 5 deg... keep it close to 2 deg. The nose should come down within a few moments, applying reverse thrust as mains touchdown also pushes nose down.


Dan Downs KCRP

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