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MDFlier

Hats off to the MS ACES Team. You still rock in 2018.

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I was going to post this in the MOBO / CPU / Etc. forum as a mini review of my new 15-8600K build. But as I started to type it I realized that while I was impressed as I could possibly be with the horsepower of my new computer, I was really more impressed with FSX itself. Let me explain.

I grew up during the dawn of the PC age. At the age of 13, I was typing basic code from a paperback book into a TRS-80 (the one inside of the Radio Shack store, not one that I owned) so that I could play Space Invaders without having to go put a quarter into the machine at the bowling alley. I've flown every version of Flight Simulator ever made. I've enjoyed the heck out of every single minute I flown on every single version, even when I was frustrated with the crashes and glitches. In the back of my mind I was always wondering what FS would be like in the future. As I grew older, newer and better versions of FS came out and hardware got better, and I built better and faster computers to run FSX better. I've built 20 or so computers in the last 40 years trying to build the one that would make me go "Ahhhh... THIS is what Flight Simulation is like in the future.". Well.... My new system runs FSX amazingly well. I'm extremely happy. However, an approach into Liberty International can still cause major stutters.

Which brings me to ACES. I'm flying around getting between 50 and 100 FPS almost everywhere. I have Scenery Complexity maxed, Autogen set to "Dense", AI Airline traffic set to 75% with a ton of WoAI airlines, GSX, ORBX, REX, Active Sky 2016. I'm pretty well loaded. I'm trying all of my old favorites like Loopy Larry, Oil Rig Transport, Tokyo Executive Transport, and a bunch of my favorite saved flights. I started switching to external views, tower views, spot views just looking at things, and taking in all of the new details and scenery nuances that simply weren't there on my old (or any) machine. There are new details and sharper textures in the default aircraft that I could never see prior to the i5-8600K and  GTX 1060 6Gb. There are more details in the default scenery than I ever thought possible. Water. Oh my God. The 1060 will do 16xQ CSAA anti aliasing with 8 x SGSSAA just as easily as my 750 Ti did at 4x. Water looks amazing. No more shimmering. It really got me to thinking about how absolutely impressive that is. I have thrown hardware at THIS particular version of Flight Simulator for 11 years trying to get one that can run it without breaking a sweat and I still haven't succeded. I honestly feel that the hardware required to make FSX run perfectly smooth with fully maxed out settings and a ton of add-ons (well, as many as a 32 bit app can handle) is STILL 2 generations away. It will take 5,5Ghz+ CPUs to run FSX all out. So how in the heck could the ACES guys see the "full Monte" while they were developing FSX? It just impresses me that a single version can hold up so well for so many years. 

So... ACES Team. Impressive work. I salute you wherever you are. Thanks for the memories!

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Wow! I have been thinking about this for the longest time, wondering if anyone would bring it up! They (ACES) must have known that they built the best possible code for the best Flight Simulator. Why else would Lockheed Martin P3D and now DTG FSW not just scrap it and come up with a better platform to build on? Speaking of the ACES team, has anyone heard from any of them? If any of them are still involved in developing or assisting add on developers?

Thanks,

Mike  

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Maybe they're (ACES) still laying in the pink sand on some tropical beach, high-fiving and ordering surf and turf to enjoy with their cool tropical drinks, then using the little cocktail umbrella's to pick the steak and lobster out of their teeth?

Just Wondering,

Mike 

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19 minutes ago, simaddict said:

Wow! I have been thinking about this for the longest time, wondering if anyone would bring it up! They (ACES) must have known that they built the best possible code for the best Flight Simulator. Why else would Lockheed Martin P3D and now DTG FSW not just scrap it and come up with a better platform to build on? Speaking of the ACES team, has anyone heard from any of them? If any of them are still involved in developing or assisting add on developers?

Thanks,

Mike  

Because its cheaper then starting from scratch. And no its not the best it can be.

 

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We all realize it's not the best it can be. That's what makes you wonder why they keep building on it?? Like you said, is it the money?

Mike 

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Money, compatibility, understanding of the code base - for starters.

Cheers!

 

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12 hours ago, MDFlier said:

So... ACES Team. Impressive work. I salute you wherever you are. Thanks for the memories!

I was thinking the same thing last night. I replaced my sim drive with a larger one and freshly reinstalled FSX, P3Dv3, and P3Dv4. I was comparing them all around Los Angeles airport without any addons and thinking that FSX still looks pretty darn good. The main reason being that I can now crank the scenery sliders to the maximum in most places. I remember when how disappointed I was was when I first got FSX because I had to reduce the sliders so much to run on my computer at the time that FS9 looked better. I'd say that I've got my money's worth from FSX. Maybe I should reinstall FS9 also! :laugh:

Ted

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Thanks, Raymond. I wonder if anyone else here has info on the ACES team? I'm just curious if they are still involved, and helping out!

Mike

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On ‎05‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 4:17 AM, MDFlier said:

 I'm flying around getting between 50 and 100 FPS almost everywhere. I have Scenery Complexity maxed, Autogen set to "Dense", AI Airline traffic set to 75% with a ton of WoAI airlines, GSX, ORBX, REX, Active Sky 2016. I'm pretty well loaded.

Great to hear that such a stellar performance is possible but perhaps not surprising given that your rig is so powerful. However with everything maxed out and all those addons active, do you not find that you start to hit the 4GB VAS threshold pretty quickly?

Bill

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On 1/5/2018 at 11:57 AM, rjfry said:

I think some of the Aces are working for LM in P3D.

 

On 1/5/2018 at 3:10 PM, simaddict said:

Thanks, Raymond. I wonder if anyone else here has info on the ACES team? I'm just curious if they are still involved, and helping out!

Mike

Phil Taylor, the lead developer at the ACES Team, went to Intel and I've seen him posting here at AVSIM occasionally.  His blog still exists at Microsoft - https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/ptaylor/.  Think it is interesting to read some of the news about the development.  I heard many moved over to the development of ESPTM.  Prepar3D is an application based on Microsoft ESPTM but I heard many of the developers were subcontractors located around the world.

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Very Interesting! Thank you, Jim. That satisfies my curiosity, wondering if any of the ACES team are still involved at any capacity!

Thanks,

Mike 

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3 hours ago, scianoir said:

Great to hear that such a stellar performance is possible but perhaps not surprising given that your rig is so powerful. However with everything maxed out and all those addons active, do you not find that you start to hit the 4GB VAS threshold pretty quickly?

Bill

I should keep my big mouth shut because just saying it will change it. I have only crashed once due to VAS issues once in the past 3-4 years. I have no idea why when it seems to be such a prevalent issue in the community. 

2 hours ago, Jim Young said:

 

Phil Taylor, the lead developer at the ACES Team, went to Intel and I've seen him posting here at AVSIM occasionally.  His blog still exists at Microsoft - https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/ptaylor/.  Think it is interesting to read some of the news about the development.  I heard many moved over to the development of ESPTM.  Prepar3D is an application based on Microsoft ESPTM but I heard many of the developers were subcontractors located around the world.

You just touched on one of the most intriguing facts about the development of FSX. From Microsoft's point of view, the actual product that they were promoting was ESP. It was the simulation of the world that they built with ESP. The fastest way to see the world is to fly though it. Flight Simulator was actually a product built upon and designed to demonstrate the usefulness of ESP. It just happened to become very popular as a standalone product. To add to it, LM seems to have actually taken  P3D and how it uses ESP in the direction for which MS had originally intended it. Full circle.  

Edited by MDFlier
Splleing errorz.
  • Upvote 1

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On ‎07‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 5:11 PM, MDFlier said:

I should keep my big mouth shut because just saying it will change it. I have only crashed once due to VAS issues once in the past 3-4 years. I have no idea why when it seems to be such a prevalent issue in the community. 

That's impressive - I'm envious!
Bill

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A great job by Tucker Hatfield who did Combat Flight Simulator 3. CFS3 is the engine behind Wings Over Flanders Fields which is still bringing out out new versions for sale continually and has been called one of or the greatest combat flight simulators of all time. Hatfield also led Flight Simulator 2000 and 2000 Professional Edition.

 

I remember how FS 2000 PE was not an add-on but instead it was a whole new full priced boxed game after FS 2000!   :/

Few people could run CFS3 without loads of stutters on the hardware of it's day, Tucker fell out of favor with MIcrosoft. Later on CFS3 ran better on the new hardware, and with WOFF is still going on and on...

 

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