WebMaximus

Just installed KB4056892 and lost about 25% of my performance...or did I...?

Recommended Posts

Yesterday I did a flight into AS EDDT and parked at the gate I started playing around a bit with the configurator for EDDT since I thought my FPS was a bit low for this kind of airport. After unchecking moving traffic everywhere but on the apron my FPS increased from about 33 FPS to about 38-39 FPS.

Today I installed KB4056892 and now when starting P3D using the same situation meaning same a/c, same exact location (haven't touched P3D since yesterday) my FPS is just above 30 rather than the 38-39 FPS I had yesterday before shutting P3D down. The only difference I can think of (except for the new MS patch) is I'm using live weather provided by ASP4 but since the weather last night vs today is very similar as far as I can see and recall from yesterday I don't think that would consume almost another 10 FPS.

So...this leaves me wondering if I just lost some 25% of the performance in P3D after installing KB4056892. As I guess most of us know by now, it has been said the required fixes for the new Meltdown/Spectre security issues might slow things down with as much as up to 30% and especially for applications relying heavily on the CPU (just like P3D) but of course I would have hoped that wouldn't be the case.

I still hope what I'm seeing here is caused by something else. I will obviously need to perform more testing to know for sure if I really lost all this performance but in the meantime it would be great to hear what everyone's else experience is after applying KB4056892.

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

37 minutes ago, WebMaximus said:

Today I installed KB4056892 and now when starting P3D using the same situation meaning same a/c, same exact location (haven't touched P3D since yesterday) my FPS is just above 30 rather than the 38-39 FPS I had yesterday before shutting P3D down.

Hi Richard,

For going on 15y now I run the flight sim du jour on its own dedicated drive complete w/ its own OS.   The only software on this SSD is P3D v3.4 and its various add ons, and Windows 7 which I have not updated with security patches since I did the install a few years ago.   I don't web surf except for LiveATC I do use that web page, don't have MS Office installed, have no realtime A/V or other software installed except for Malwarebytes which I run a scan maybe once every few months, and so also have disabled Defender.   

I'm assuming of course there is very little risk for security issues with this approach, and certainly I haven't seen one yet.   Is this an approach you might consider in order to be less vulnerable to the sorts of issues happening now for you?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

Browsed quickly through the linked test and looks overall promising but then again, not sure if any of those benchmarks was a good indication how P3D might react since we all know it can be a picky beast although it has become a bit better/less CPU dependent the last couple of years.

Oh well, so far the flight is just fine and as long as I can continue to enjoy myself flying with no issues I'm a happy camper.

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, Noel said:

For going on 15y now I run the flight sim du jour on its own dedicated drive complete w/ its own OS.   The only software on this SSD is P

I'm sure that's a good thing.

I don't have an own OS installation for P3D but I do keep my PC very tidy with a minimum of stuff not related to P3D and I do keep P3D on it's own SSD partition.

Share this post


Link to post

I thought there was also a BIOS update needed to activate this security patch? 

Jos

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, beep747 said:

I thought there was also a BIOS update needed to activate this security patch? 

Jos

True, to be fully protected (or as protected as you can be) a firmware update is required as well.

Share this post


Link to post

There are two vulnerabilities:

Meltdown and Spectre.

The first is patcheable via OS and activates as long as your OS is supported (Note Windows 32bits version are not patcheable at this time)

The second vulnerability will be only fully patched after your CPU activates special microcode that is delivered via BIOS firmware updates, for this your hardware vendor has to step in.

For more information please read the MS security advice: https://portal.msrc.microsoft.com/en-US/security-guidance/advisory/ADV180002

Regards,

Simbol 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, simbol said:

There are two vulnerabilities:

Meltdown and Spectre.

The first is patcheable via OS and activates as long as your OS is supported (Note Windows 32bits version are not patcheable at this time)

The second vulnerability will be only fully patched after your CPU activates special microcode that is delivered via BIOS firmware updates, for this your hardware vendor has to step in.

For more information please read the MS security advice: https://portal.msrc.microsoft.com/en-US/security-guidance/advisory/ADV180002

Regards,

Simbol 

Can you comment on what the real vulnerabilty can translate to as a worst case?  How can a malicious intent manifest itself thru these vulnerabilities?

Share this post


Link to post

Hi Richard,

Here is a good article from Microsoft about User-Mode and Kernel-Mode usage in applications (games, sims, etc. are all "applications" and not distinguishable). 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/gettingstarted/user-mode-and-kernel-mode

P3D, XP11, FSW, etc. will all run in User-Mode ... that's why when any of the these application crash they usually CTD (crash to desktop) and don't LOCKUP/FREEZE one's PC and you can continue computing (no reboot).  Usually a lockup/freeze is Kernel-mode activity ... this can be graphics drivers, sound drivers, SSD/HD drivers, USB drivers, bluetooth drivers, wireless drivers ... drivers don't have to operate in Kernel-mode, but many do and the GPU driver will certainly be in kernel-mode.

In Windows 10 1607 onwards, kernel-mode drivers must be digitally signed, but beyond that it's difficult to determine what drivers are kernel-mode vs. user-mode.  Obviously user-mode drivers are not going to be impacted by these "security fixes" so the more drivers you have in user-mode the better. 

A good rule of thumb is to disable hardware options in your BIOS/EFI that you are not using (i.e. Bluetooth, Wireless, extra NIC, etc.) and also disable any SATA ports not being used and finally disable PCIe slots not being used (not all BIOS/EFIs provide this option so will vary by Motherboard and vendor).  This will reduce the driver overhead and hence "possible" reduction in kernel-mode usage.

Cheers, Rob.

Share this post


Link to post

Richard,

 

EDDT from Aerosoft is indeed a big framehog.

 

Don't knwo what they have done, but looking to the houses in the Southeast area of the airport brings frames down. It is not about stutters, but frames go down in certain sight angles.

You have them also in sight when approaching 27.

 

Have you tried, after loading a new flight, to "turn" your head 360°?

Since P3D v4(.1?) that brings back normaly your frames if you do this when starting a flight.

 

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
11 minutes ago, Noel said:

Can you comment on what the real vulnerabilty can translate to as a worst case?  How can a malicious intent manifest itself thru these vulnerabilities?

The concern security advisors have is that the exploits allows cyber criminals to steal passwords (or other information) without leaving any trace plus antivirus programs would find it very difficult (if not impossible) to detect it.

So for example any data stored on your cookies (credit cards, user home address, bitcoins wallets, etc.) could be stolen just by visiting a website with specially crafted java scripts, the same could happen via trojans arriving via email, etc.

I recommend reading this article as it has plenty of examples about the dangers and posible problems if users don't protect against these exploits: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/meltdown-and-spectre-heres-what-intel-apple-microsoft-others-are-doing-about-it/

Regards 

Simbol 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Dave_YVR said:

 It could also just have been a one off thing on that load, who knows. My PC installed that update on the 4th, and I haven't noticed any difference.

I have been doing a fair bit of simming since KB4056892 installed on the 4th and, like you, have no noticeable performance loss.  Everything seems to be as stable and fluid as before the patch.

Share this post


Link to post
27 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Hi Richard,

Here is a good article from Microsoft about User-Mode and Kernel-Mode usage in applications (games, sims, etc. are all "applications" and not distinguishable). 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/gettingstarted/user-mode-and-kernel-mode

P3D, XP11, FSW, etc. will all run in User-Mode ... that's why when any of the these application crash they usually CTD (crash to desktop) and don't LOCKUP/FREEZE one's PC and you can continue computing (no reboot).  Usually a lockup/freeze is Kernel-mode activity ... this can be graphics drivers, sound drivers, SSD/HD drivers, USB drivers, bluetooth drivers, wireless drivers ... drivers don't have to operate in Kernel-mode, but many do and the GPU driver will certainly be in kernel-mode.

In Windows 10 1607 onwards, kernel-mode drivers must be digitally signed, but beyond that it's difficult to determine what drivers are kernel-mode vs. user-mode.  Obviously user-mode drivers are not going to be impacted by these "security fixes" so the more drivers you have in user-mode the better. 

A good rule of thumb is to disable hardware options in your BIOS/EFI that you are not using (i.e. Bluetooth, Wireless, extra NIC, etc.) and also disable any SATA ports not being used and finally disable PCIe slots not being used (not all BIOS/EFIs provide this option so will vary by Motherboard and vendor).  This will reduce the driver overhead and hence "possible" reduction in kernel-mode usage.

Cheers, Rob.

Thanks for the advice and information Rob.

Already have anything not in use disabled.

21 minutes ago, guenseli said:

Richard,

 

EDDT from Aerosoft is indeed a big framehog.

 

Don't knwo what they have done, but looking to the houses in the Southeast area of the airport brings frames down. It is not about stutters, but frames go down in certain sight angles.

You have them also in sight when approaching 27.

 

Have you tried, after loading a new flight, to "turn" your head 360°?

Since P3D v4(.1?) that brings back normaly your frames if you do this when starting a flight.

 

 

Good to know. Haven't done that many flights into EDDT yet but will keep what you say in mind next time I go there.

7 minutes ago, dmiannay said:

I have been doing a fair bit of simming since KB4056892 installed on the 4th and, like you, have no noticeable performance loss.  Everything seems to be as stable and fluid as before the patch.

Just landed at ESSA where my FPS was perfectly normal so all seems good (normal) to my big relief.

Share this post


Link to post

I haven't noticed anything different at all... I didn't even know this patch was installed!?

 

Share this post


Link to post

No difference at all here, either.

Hans

Share this post


Link to post
20 minutes ago, bjratchf said:

I haven't noticed anything different at all... I didn't even know this patch was installed!?

 

And you shouldn't notice any difference. From what I read, the Microsoft patch is only half of the fix for the Spectre vulnerability. It's the second half, a BIOS upgrade to your motherboard, when available, that will change the way the CPU functions, that could slow down performance. The Spectre vulnerability is at a hardware level, and any software patch cannot fix it completely. 

Share this post


Link to post
59 minutes ago, guenseli said:

but frames go down in certain sight angles.

I have to say, I have only issues on some heavy add-ons, other than that pretty smooth. Last night update didn't produce any issues....for now at least....will monitor....

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, simbol said:

The concern security advisors have is that the exploits allows cyber criminals to steal passwords (or other information) without leaving any trace plus antivirus programs would find it very difficult (if not impossible) to detect it.

So for example any data stored on your cookies (credit cards, user home address, bitcoins wallets, etc.) could be stolen just by visiting a website with specially crafted java scripts, the same could happen via trojans arriving via email, etc.

I recommend reading this article as it has plenty of examples about the dangers and posible problems if users don't protect against these exploits: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/meltdown-and-spectre-heres-what-intel-apple-microsoft-others-are-doing-about-it/

Regards 

Simbol 

Thank you for that clear explanation.  As I have no passwords on my sim SSD I guess there is little to exploit.  In my triple-boot platform I always do my FS related purchases on a different OS/SSD so should install the updates for that OS/SSD for sure.  I will read the arstechnica article thanks ;o)

Share this post


Link to post
29 minutes ago, Noel said:

Thank you for that clear explanation.  As I have no passwords on my sim SSD I guess there is little to exploit.  In my triple-boot platform I always do my FS related purchases on a different OS/SSD so should install the updates for that OS/SSD for sure.  I will read the arstechnica article thanks ;o)

Do you visit Facebook, check email or visit websites on your Sim PC? if you do, you are at risk.

I have been running with the patches already since Wednesday last week and I have zero impact on my performance, my advise is to patch every system as we don;t know how cyber criminals will use these exploits, remember that is their Job find ways to get in to steal anything they can.

Best Regards,

Simbol

Share this post


Link to post

I have CTD'd 3 times in 2 days since it was installed.

I don't remember a CTD ever before.

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, n99wb said:

I have CTD'd 3 times in 2 days since it was installed.

I don't remember a CTD ever before.

Do you overclock? If you do recheck your OC is stable now with the patches.

S

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, simbol said:

Do you overclock? If you do recheck your OC is stable now with the patches.

S

Nope, it's all stock.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now