Weather for Prepar3D v4 - difference between Active Sky, ASCA, ENVTEX, PTA, and Rex SkyForce 3D?

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Now stop being so pigheaded and go make a flight ... 

Haha, well, I still don't think it's so (I did read that post you quoted!) but it is of no real importance  : the only important thing is if my skies look good and realistic. But I will stop moaning about this. For now LOL

[vgbaron 3,598]

Gerard is correct - in both full and dynamic the selected items are updated on the fly.

Let's try this one more time - 

The "normal" way the sim uses clouds is the theme method. The user selects a theme from the selection provided by the cloud art program. That theme contains various "sets" of clouds (stratus, cumulus, etc) with size, shape and coloring that tries to cover various weather conditions. When the sim is run, that theme is loaded - during the flight, based upon weather, the various clouds "sets" are selected from that theme and displayed as you go.

The dynamic/global method essentially works the same EXCEPT the ASP4/ASCA combination will change the "THEME" on the fly - each new theme has it's own set of cloud "sets" which will give you a much larger variation. User can select up to 8 THEMES to be used at any particular time. That is essentially the function of the dynamic updating on the fly - prior to this, if you loaded a new THEME you had to reload the sim.

Vic

[slantalpha 0]

Thanks, guys. That's a lot of info.

To be honest, I don't know the difference between a "model" and a "texture". What kind of performance hit do products like these typically have? My GPU is maxxed out already at 100% with the settings I'm using on Prepar3D v4. I'd just like to know before I buy, especially since there isn't a trial for ASP4.

I've also seen Rex Texture Direct and Rex Soft Clouds. What do these ones do in comparison to Rex SkyForce 3D?

[JoeFackel 760]

If you are already driving your GPU on the edge you will have to notch down your settings when using a wheater engine and texture addons.

Don't chase high fps numbers! Go for smoothness, you can also achieve it with "low" fps in the mid 20ies

[simmerhead 885]

1 minute ago, JoeFackel said:

Don't chase high fps numbers! Go for smoothness, you can also achieve it with "low" fps in the mid 20ies

Only if you fly in a straight line...Fps in the 20s isn't smooth - it's a compromise. If you fly fast jets or helicopters fps in the 20s is a challenge.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, jeff0000 said:

I don't know the difference between a "model" and a "texture".

A model is the shape on which a texture is placed to give the shape a recognizable look. A model of a ball would just be a 'mathematic empty' circle: put the texture of a basketball on it and it suddenly is a baskeball, put the texture of a soccer ball on it and it suddenly is a soccer ball. 

[JoeFackel 760]

1 hour ago, simmerhead said:

If you fly fast jets or helicopters fps in the 20s is a challenge.

Maybe true. I for myself don't fly fast jets in P3D because everyone i tried so far is a complete piece of **** when i look at the flight charakteristics.

A good example is the default F16. I've serveral thousand hours in BMS (they have the F16 flightmodel from NASA) and also some hours in real military simulators. I can't believe how LM can release an F16 which is so way off from their very own product! :-(

[Paul_ 52]

18 hours ago, GSalden said:

You are wrong Jeroen ...

 

Full Dynamics is more enhanced than Global Automatic .

• Global Automatic : Every time AS16 updates the weather it checks the conditions, communicates with ASCA and then ASCA decides which single texture file to install to the sim, just prior to loading the new weather. So this working together with the smooth theme transition you all know (?) since ASN introduced it, creates an environment that slowly changes the textures you see in the sim. Max variation however is still 1

• Full dynamics : Now imagine each 3D cloud having its own texture (similar for example to AI aircraft, where each aircraft type uses different textures). That's what Full dynamics offers. Of course since the cloud variations are hundreds, we'd run into memory issues loading that many textures (if the current weather conditions have many different types of clouds). So, we restricted the "pool" of possible textures to 8, giving us an overall variation of 128 which is more than adequate while at the same time VAS footprint is minimal (unless you use 4096 textures).  So how this thing works in action?

- When AS16 is prepared to load new weather conditions consisting of a cumulus congestus, a Cumulonimbus calvus and some stratus layers, each one of them will use a different texture, increasing the scene realism significantly. As the flight progresses, depending on the weather conditions, a different cloud model will be selected (e.g. cumulus humilis) which has its own texture inherently "attached". This is the way in Full Dynamics you get transition of cloud textures as your flight progresses.
- One other advantage of this is that for example in Full Dynamics, some clouds that "need" higher resolution to depict properly (like the CBs) will use a higher resolution texture (up to the limit the user has selected in ASCA settings). At the same time softer clouds (like stratus), will only choose the texture resolution that is actually needed (e.g. 512DXT) and the result will be equally good looking scene, with much increased performance

 

Now stop being so pigheaded and go make a flight ... 

Great description Gerard ... thank you

So in your humble opinion which would you choose for the best 'on the fly' real world weather  .... Global Automatic or Full Dynamics?

At present I am using Global Automatic

Cheers

Paul

[simmerhead 885]

1 hour ago, JoeFackel said:

Maybe true. I for myself don't fly fast jets in P3D because everyone i tried so far is a complete piece of **** when i look at the flight charakteristics.

A good example is the default F16. I've serveral thousand hours in BMS (they have the F16 flightmodel from NASA) and also some hours in real military simulators. I can't believe how LM can release an F16 which is so way off from their very own product! :-(

Try helicopters then... :D

I've learned to live with the limitations. I've been in a real F-16 simulator myself at our local air base, and while systems and flight model might be accurate, the poor graphics killed the immersion. Seems you can't have the cake and eat it too....

 

[GSalden 4,656]

2 hours ago, Paul_ said:

Great description Gerard ... thank you

So in your humble opinion which would you choose for the best 'on the fly' real world weather  .... Global Automatic or Full Dynamics?

At present I am using Global Automatic

Cheers

Paul

Hi Paul,

Here I am using Full Dynamics. I like it when the 3D clouds have different textures instead of them looking the same.

regards, Gerard

[Paul_ 52]

21 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Hi Paul,

Here I am using Full Dynamics. I like it when the 3D clouds have different textures instead of them looking the same.

regards, Gerard

Hi Gerard

So neither Global or Full Dynamics are actually depicting the exact cloud textures/formations that are happening in the real world at that very moment when used in conjunction with AS16? 

Paul

[GSalden 4,656]

In real life each cloud has a different texture and each cloud has a different structure.

Fs weather programs can read the size of a structure and then implement their own version.

Regarding textures , it depends on weather conditions which texture is being chosen.

With SF and ASCA in Global Automation at the start a theme is chosen that resambles the current weather situation best.  All 3D clouds around you have the same texture.

With ASCA Global Automation during the flight new themes can be loaded If weather conditions change. But for all 3D clouds again the same texture is being used. In total up to 16 different texture sets can be chosen.

ASCA Full Dynamics varies in textures . One cloud may look softer than another. Again , depending on weather conditions and not randomely chosen. Up to 8 different cloud variations from 16 texture sets can be chosen. That is a 128 variations.

See: https://hifisimtech.com/forums/showthread.php?6479-AS16-ASCA

[Guest]

8 hours ago, GSalden said:

In total up to 16 different texture sets can be chosen.

To prevent confusion (hoping I don’t just add confusion LOL) this should read ‘In total up to 16 different samples’. One regular TEXTURE contains 16 SAMPLES. We don’t want people start posting everywhere that ASCA Global works with 8 textures. ;) It works with 1 texture which offers the sim 8 samples. And a sample is a ‘picture’ of a specific piece of a cloud, like “stratus, wispy, solid areas of the cloud”. 

In Full dynamics 8 textures can be used offering the sim 128 samples to play with.

And btw although the textures are chosen depending on the weather the textures are applied rather randomly. I mean, METAR doesn’t tell us which cloud should be fluffy and which one not. It is all about the overall look that is being generated. 

8 hours ago, Paul_ said:

So neither Global or Full Dynamics are actually depicting the exact cloud textures/formations that are happening in the real world at that very moment when used in conjunction with AS16? 

No, the EXACT cloud formations are IMPOSSIBLE to get into the sim. Like in ‘this cloud belongs here and that cloud there’. METAR described the weather in a large area and so it’s always an impression of what is out there, never the real deal.

[vgbaron 3,598]

Believe me I have heard it form some users who looked outside and complained because there were a few clouds directly over his house but they didn't show in the sim.

Remember, partially cloudy means different things to different people. As far as the weather programs go, if coverage is 5/8 then 5/8 of the visible sky will be populated with clouds, etc.

Vic

[Drumcode 1,893]

After so many years of being constantly proven that you're not best, I totally don't understand why the folks at REX are trying to come up with the weather engine which is probably never going to surpass what Hifi have achieved. I know this is a little cold, but how many times over the years did we go through this? Just give it up and focus on what you're best at, plus the SimAir!