What's going on with FSW?

[pracines 823]

21 minutes ago, theohall65 said:

Parsing every little word, like "go to sim" is a little ridiculous.

When there is such thing as a "go to sim" the rest will die.

In the mean time (which is the most probable future), whatever is the most realistic experience will be the most favored....FSW is not the most favored flight sim. 

I'm very glad that you are enjoying FSW, I'm enjoying P3Dv4 (mostly), X-Plane 11, and AeroFly2. 

[theohall65 64]

4 minutes ago, pracines said:

I'm very glad that you are enjoying FSW, I'm enjoying P3Dv4 (mostly), X-Plane 11, and AeroFly2. 

Which goes back to my earlier point.  You have the wherewithal to pay for all of those....

Again - pricing matters.  Enjoy spending that much money on multiple flight sims.  Not an option for some of us.

[pmb 5,137]

5 minutes ago, theohall65 said:

Again - pricing matters.  Enjoy spending that much money on multiple flight sims.  Not an option for some of us.

Do you really think FSW + its addons will be "cheap" when (if) it ever will pick up speed? Maybe you can have a look upon Train Simulator to get an idea. Sure, no one forces you to but those addons - but no one forces you to buy P3D addons either. Concerning the simulator itself, I gladly pay 200 $ every 2 years (yes I did, beginning with Prepar3d1) for getting something professionally. And no, I am not rich, but simming is my hobby.

I had quite some hope for the Dovetail project when it was started years ago. However its meander path through forum announcements without any reply from the Dovetail initiators, oddly-defined questionnaires, that ugly Flight School and now an incrementally evolving FSW (when will they repair the snow in summer on ground seen through clouds?) took me any confidence. 

Kind regards, Michael

[Patco Lch 1,465]

3 minutes ago, theohall65 said:

Which goes back to my earlier point.  You have the wherewithal to pay for all of those....

Again - pricing matters.  Enjoy spending that much money on multiple flight sims.  Not an option for some of us.

Agreed. Over ten years I've poured a lot of money into FSX now Steam and feel like I now have a very good sim in spite of the 32bit thing. I'm a die hard airliner fan and any sim without my PMDG,TFDi, Leonardo birds would  just be a novelty and be hanged before I pay $120 apiece to repurchase my PMDG liners. Believe me I have spent many hours researching the 64 bit sims and FSW is the only one priced low enough to spark any interest even then only to tinker around with. Every one is different in situation and preference. Kind of wish so many people would quit calling FSX dead because over the years freeware as well as commercial developers have made it into IMO a fantastic flight simulator. After all P3D and FSW are still variants of FSX.  

[HighBypass 2,339]

4 minutes ago, pmb said:

.....(when will they repair the snow in summer on ground seen through clouds?)...

Thank you Michael. That's exactly what the textures look like. I knew something was wrong the first time I flew into the clouds. Now I have the description. 

Still, I have high hopes that FSW will progess as a definite contender to the 64 bit crown.. How soon? Well... 

[pracines 823]

Flight simulation has been and always will be an expensive adventure. DTG can make that initial expense kind of cheap, but have fun flying in the same weather, with the same lethargic ATC, with the same barren wasteland airports, and the same planes. When you get tired of the mundane you will either have to quit or pay. 

Hopefully the core of FSW will be developed further w/o any further price to FSW owners, but if it gets released in a couple weeks, I would not expect the core of version 1 to get too much of a face lift anymore.....then version 2 will have a price tag.....same road.

[torium 207]

24 minutes ago, pracines said:

Yes Flight School was incorporated into FSW, but that resulted in so many people getting FSW for free and that could not have been the original plan. This was a reaction to the rejection of Flight School and the same is happening to FSW,

I do not share your interpretation of history. 

Back in the past, Dovetail said, quote: "DTG Flight School and DTG Flight Sim use the same core game engine as FSX. We have heavily modified and updated that game engine to make these titles."

"In 2014, we acquired the rights to develop and publish new flight products based on Microsoft’s genre-defining flight technology. Flight School is the first of these."

"To be blunt, if you already play flight sims then DTG Flight School is not for you."

They consistently talked about 2 titles. So there was none "reaction to the rejection of Flight School". 

I can also mention a couple of other statements from Dovetail, quote: "The key word here is "platform". We have said this many times before, DTG Flight Sim is not going to be all things to all people at day one of launch."

"For us, releasing DTG Flight Simulator is just the beginning. All of the really hard works comes afterwards once you and developers get your hands on it."

Not even Dovetail believes that FSW will be the "go to sim" from day one (when out of EA).

Notice also the statement from rsrandazzo (PMDG), quote: "We are very excited to see Dovetail's work beginning to bear fruit and we look forward to learning more.
At PMDG our money is firmly on Dovetail Games for the simming side and Prepar3D for the enterprise side of our business."

I am convinced that the large customer base will focus on "Games" before "the enterprise side". Time will tell. 

[torium 207]

32 minutes ago, pmb said:

(when will they repair the snow in summer on ground seen through clouds?) took me any confidence.

There is a good reason for this. They are now working with a massive update of the environment (trueSKY, lighting, PBR, etc.). It is rational to work after a succession so they do not waste resources on something they need to redo again.

[pracines 823]

17 minutes ago, torium said:

I do not share your interpretation of history. 

I am convinced that the large customer base will focus on "Games" before "the enterprise side". Time will tell. 

none of this proves me wrong....

These titles has become this (singular) title.  

The first is dead.

So why cant any new player of flight sims buy flight school since it was so well received as a single product...it was not received well at all....plan B.

Not all things to all people is an understatement, it is all things to about 100 people - that is all. The rest (a million +/- others) are flying something else, waiting for FSW to be worth running/trying.

The beginning for P3D was v 1 and they are at version 4.1 now, they are not going to wait for DTG, and XP 11 is growing very fast; the VR in XP 11 is doing great for me. So what if its just a beginning for FSW, no competitor is going to sit around and wait for them.

beginning to bear fruit on a cosmic scale is all. Still there is no value in developing a study level airliner for a sim that has no professional flight planning possibilities, no realistic wx, no airliner life at all at major airports, and no online ATC availability.

DTG is doing things their way, and I wish the best for them, but so far its not looking good at all.  

 

[theohall65 64]

no realistic wx, no airliner life at all at major airports, and no online ATC availability.

All of these are being addressed... gradually... Man - do people even read or listen to what Stephen Hood says, instead of parsing 3 words to death?

Professional flight planning is for P3D and was never intended for FSW - as it is intended for entertainment - not professional training as P3D is intended.  Different products for different audiences.  That being said, some 3rd party could still develop professional flight planning for FSW.  I'm just not expecting it from DTG as it's not intended as part of the sim. 

And no one expects competitors do wait around for anyone.  FSW is a different product intended for a different audience than P3D, so those comparisons seem rather stupid to me.  The only thing in common, really, is they are marketed as Flight Sims.  However, they are marketing to two different audiences - entertainment vs professional.

[theohall65 64]

1 hour ago, pmb said:

Do you really think FSW + its addons will be "cheap" when (if) it ever will pick up speed? Maybe you can have a look upon Train Simulator to get an idea. Sure, no one forces you to but those addons - but no one forces you to buy P3D addons either. Concerning the simulator itself, I gladly pay 200 $ every 2 years (yes I did, beginning with Prepar3d1) for getting something professionally. And no, I am not rich, but simming is my hobby.

I had quite some hope for the Dovetail project when it was started years ago. However its meander path through forum announcements without any reply from the Dovetail initiators, oddly-defined questionnaires, that ugly Flight School and now an incrementally evolving FSW (when will they repair the snow in summer on ground seen through clouds?) took me any confidence. 

Kind regards, Michael

They won't cost near as much as P3D or as much as Aerofly FS2 is already costing.  Yes, I will gradually buy things within reason for my means... but compare the pricing of things already.

Good example of things I don't need - the P40 or FS-Flight Controls Moving Map/Slew DLC.  Not spending the money on it.

Things on which I did spend money - Big Bear, Epic Approaches, and the Arrow III - and I've still spent less than $100 total on FSW....  Can one say the same about any of the others (except FSX) and have the whole world available - ie spend less than $100 and have the whole world with terrain and airports?

So, yes, there will be a cost going forward, but it's not likely going to be as high as what I'm already seeing for those others (Aerofly, X-Plane, and P3D).

[paulopp 56]

Again we should stress that P3D is the academic/professional side of the ESP branch whereas FSW is the entertainment one. I wonder how many P3D users are at first seeking entertainment in a modern sim since the halt of MS/ACES. Moaning that FSW doesn't take off as an EE Lightning during scramble seems a bit unfair to me after LM have more or less lead the newcomer/upgrader market since P3D's inception because of the lacking alternatives, now more so with the advent of 64bit simming.

Let's please not be so spoilt and impatient to the point that we criticize DTG for all the child's illnesses. Rome was not built on one day either and DTG are not LM. I support FSW against all early death calls because as a layman just seeking entertainment (advanced one for sure), I don't have the option to change to P3D.

[A32xx 129]

Well said, paulopp! If I may illustrate that sentiment:

[torium 207]

Again I do not share your interpretation of history.

1 hour ago, pracines said:

Not all things to all people is an understatement, it is all things to about 100 people - that is all. The rest (a million +/- others) are flying something else, waiting for FSW to be worth running/trying.

I get the impression that you think Dovetail is completely without knowledge. That they have not done thorough market research etc.

Back in the past, Dovetail said, quote: "The sim will not be all things to all people to start with and in many cases there may be no immediate advantage to you to give it a try. That is okay. All we ask is don't write it off, continue enjoying what you are currently doing and keep an eye on it."

In other words, Dovetail wishes you and the rest (a million +/- others) good luck with what you are using today. And I could not agree more. If P3D is perfect for you, be happy. It's not for me.

1 hour ago, pracines said:

The beginning for P3D was v 1 and they are at version 4.1 now, they are not going to wait for DTG, and XP 11 is growing very fast; the VR in XP 11 is doing great for me. So what if its just a beginning for FSW, no competitor is going to sit around and wait for them.

Dovetail is obviously aware of this, and previously said, quote: "Since we decided, almost four years ago, that we wanted to develop a flight simulator our focus has been on making one which meets the needs and desires of simmers. Not one that that competes with any other sim."

"We don't really see ourselves as being in direct competition with anyone hadoken. We are not very big on keeping up with the Jones as they say. To this end we don't drive motivation from what everyone else is currently doing. 
Instead we have spent the last two years listening to both existing and would-be simmers alike. We have been intent on discovering what keeps you all simming, and what stops those who would like to get into flight simulation from doing so. 
 It is aim to make a new true next gen flight simulation platform that you all want. That is what drives us, that is what motivates us to do what we are doing."

1 hour ago, pracines said:

beginning to bear fruit on a cosmic scale is all. Still there is no value in developing a study level airliner for a sim that has no professional flight planning possibilities, no realistic wx, no airliner life at all at major airports, and no online ATC availability.

Is it rational to expect that PMDG is ready with "a study level airliner" before FSW is out of the Early Access?

For a little reality check, I will again quote Dovetail: "Something we have said time and time again is that we are committed to this for the long run. We are realists, by that I mean we know it will take years to build up this new platform and the infrastructure around it to match the current landscape of flight simulation. However, with the help of the flight sim community and developers alike that is exactly what we plan to do. It will all just take time and a lot of hard work."

Do not be so negative. After all, you have P3D. 

[pracines 823]

This is the topic question: What's going on with FSW?  

Quoting all the intentions/advice of the past does not answer this OP. I came into the conversation when I saw the simflight.nl news, because that is a startling development of news. 

If the simflight.nl news post is true, then about 100 people in the world are likely to be quite disappointed. The only reason why they would not be disappointed is if DTG continues to release many major core improvements after release for free, but is that not a state of early access? If EA ends technically then that's it, any major further core development for free would be very unlikely. A patch here and there maybe.

There will have to be a very serious and extremely captivating core update to accompany the release of FSW. If I know DTG well enough, that will not happen, and I would be happy to wrong about this. I wonder if a DTG train simulator business model is possibly what is in store, if it is, FSW fans will be waiting for a go to sim for decades to come, and DLC will be a huge part of that possibility of being the go to sim. Sounds familiar to a degree; P3D costs more initially and we get continued development for free with each version. We pay for the product and for its scheduled development, and that development is major, so its a good value. We also have a very healthy 3rd party system in place for P3Dv4. 

All this talk about the gaming/professional aspect does not matter if FSW lags behind the others...hence the OP question. "Gamers" will buy XP or FSX or P3D if they are that interested in aviation/flight sims, and if they aren't that interested in aviation, they will not be that interested in FSW either.

It is good to see people holding onto hope for FSW. I do too, but I will not defend FSW as it is presently; DTG needs to show me some more evidence that this has a chance to be a go to sim first. There is some good aspects of FSW, but the bad outweigh the good for me. Them clouds and the grey ground effect is the cream of the failed crop....that should have been anticipated to be a blunder or been fixed quick....true sky or whatever excuses are simply not good enough at this level.....a "go to sim" level,... possibly going to be released in a couple weeks,...(???). 

This is the conclusion of my comments on this topic. <with a very positive and huge grin>