ColinSigley

Navigraph Data in GTN750

Recommended Posts

How can I utilise my Navigraph charts and FMS data in the GTN 750 Touch.  There doesn't appear to be any information on airways or fix points leading to errors when I try to import and use flight plans.

 

Any help welcomed.  I have tried the manuals etc to no avail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

This is not possible because the GTN (both RXP and F1) use the data from the Garmin Trainer. Updates would only be possible if one had the official Garmin update software which, afaik, is quite expensive. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Garmin Trainer does have airways and vector data so not sure why you aren't seeing those?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, MartinRex007 said:

The Garmin Trainer does have airways and vector data so not sure why you aren't seeing those?

That's of course correct. The data is complete. Just as of the latest cycle the trainer has. Sorry if this was not clear in my post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whilst I have been thinking about the problem, I looked at the waypoint data in X-Plane 11 which is a .txt file from Navigraph.  I saved the file with a .wpt extension and put it into the FPLN folder in c:\ProgramData\Garmin\Trainers\GTN\FPLN.  The error message went away and everything sprung to life.  The format of the data is the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/31/2018 at 8:42 PM, hjsmuc said:

This is not possible because the GTN (both RXP and F1) use the data from the Garmin Trainer. Updates would only be possible if one had the official Garmin update software which, afaik, is quite expensive. 

Dealbreaker for me. Too bad - the GTN 750 looked very promising.

I personally find it interesting that the GTN 750 is clearly targeted at flight simmers - yet fails to support that community's main source for nav data.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, the lack of matching data with XP 11 is a nuisance. I have given up on importing flight plans from anything else as the odds of getting it in has been very low (in my limited experience).

I simply recreate the flight plan again in the GTN750, and so far I have been able to get it close enough to fly with. I only use the GTN750 with small aircraft, so the flight plans are usually not that long or complex. I also use Pilot2ATC, and the trick there is to add a much large leeway of error before ATC tells you that you are off course. I use 20nm lateral deviation, I think. Works like a charm.

You can also add custom fixes on the fly pretty easily, so it is pretty easy to add anything that is missing.

One of the biggest areas of conflict seems to be the STAR/Approach area - I put them in as best I can, but the thing is Pilot2ATC is going to vector you at that point anyway (in most cases), so your plan in the GTN-750 does not really matter.

If you are not using ATC of any sort, then I guess it does not really matter if the data is a bit outdated.

Despite this limitation, I still love the GTN-750 - it is so much better than using that awful GNS530 it is worth any workaround.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is quite disappointing for anyone who wants to fly with Vatsim or Pilot Edge with the GTN750. Nothing is worse if you're trying to fly IFR and run into old databases in your nav equipment. Hopefully they will get it together and make it compatible with Navigraph updates, or is it Navigraph that has to do it?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hopefully, the RXP GTN using the latest trainer v6.50 makes you fly with cycle 1803!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Navigraph issue is what is stopping me from purchasing the GTN750 as well.  I fly online and need the latest cycle.  Navigraph updates would make the purchase a no-brainer.  I've seen many FB posts expressing the same disappointment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will try this, I remember having a look at the SD card content but it was different than the files you list. Maybe because monthly update just copy an incremental database and not the complete set....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kama2004 said:

I will try this, I remember having a look at the SD card content but it was different than the files you list. Maybe because monthly update just copy an incremental database and not the complete set....

The file you want is Nav_db2.bin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been addicted to using the 750 lately...I generally love it.  However, last evening I was planning a flight from KPNE to KCAK and the STAR indicated by Simbrief wasn't available as the airac data is too old in the 750.  Since my plan was to fly online, I was disappointed.  The OCD in me kicked in and I couldn't get over not using my original flight plan.  I made the flight using the default FMS which went well but it annoyed the hell out me.  I just can't understand why the entities involved can't come up with an agreement so that Navigraph navdata could be used.  The add on costs almost as much as X-Plane itself....it's a NAVIGATION add-on.....it should have current data.  It would be like Flight Factor selling the 767 without engines...but the other systems are modelled.  Sales of the 750 would multiply as the only real hesitation for most folks (source: FB) is the navdata issue.  Apologies for my rant.....my wife wouldn't listen and frankly, doesn't care.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My opinion only...Flight factor, etc are commercial type aircraft using dedicated Flight Management systems. You will not find a  GA navigation system on those type of aircraft, no was it ever intended for that use. I only use the GNS or GTN for my GA flying and the navdata is perfectly fine for that. Plus, not losing touch, this is a pseudo game simulator not RW commercial intent. IF it is so vital to have up to the moment Navdata, one can always get a Garmin subscription.

Edited by Adrian123
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jcbak said:

I've been addicted to using the 750 lately...I generally love it.  However, last evening I was planning a flight from KPNE to KCAK and the STAR indicated by Simbrief wasn't available as the airac data is too old in the 750.  Since my plan was to fly online, I was disappointed.  The OCD in me kicked in and I couldn't get over not using my original flight plan.  I made the flight using the default FMS which went well but it annoyed the hell out me.  I just can't understand why the entities involved can't come up with an agreement so that Navigraph navdata could be used.  The add on costs almost as much as X-Plane itself....it's a NAVIGATION add-on.....it should have current data.  It would be like Flight Factor selling the 767 without engines...but the other systems are modelled.  Sales of the 750 would multiply as the only real hesitation for most folks (source: FB) is the navdata issue.  Apologies for my rant.....my wife wouldn't listen and frankly, doesn't care.

The GTN, (both the F1 and RXP versions) use the official Garmin trainer program for their functionality. The databases used in the trainer are exactly the same files used in the real GTN units installed in real aircraft.

You could, in fact, extract the database files from the trainer onto the appropriate SIM card, and load them into a real GTN, and they would work.

The F1 and RXP GTNs are, for all intents and purposes, a real GTN in software form.

It is nice that Garmin permits flight simulation companies like F1 and RXP to use their trainer program as the core of the flight sim versions. It’s a good business marketing decision, because at least some flight sim users who use the F1 and RXP products may be real world aircraft owners contemplating purchasing a GTN for their aircraft, and they can get a better understanding of how those units work in a simulated aircraft that can actually be flown, rather than using the trainer in static stand-alone mode on a computer desktop.

Garmin sells monthly database subscriptions to pilots for use in their aircraft, and those subscriptions are a substantial source of revenue for the company. The format of the database files is proprietary, and what’s more, they are encrypted.

There is no possible way that Garmin is going to provide Navigraph or any other flight simulation AIRAC provider with information about the internal structure and encryption algorithms used in their databases - specifically because the resulting files could then be loaded in a real GTN. 

Garmin isn’t in the business of making computer flight simulator add-ons. They are in the business of making real avionics for real aircraft that sell for thousands, or tens of thousands of dollars.

The only way that you could ever have a flight sim GTN that could be updated monthly would be to do what MS has done with their GNS-430 product, which is to create a “built from the ground up” emulation of the “look and feel” of a real Garmin GNS-430, but which does not use actual Garmin training software for its internal operation.

And even in the case of MS, they don’t use Navigraph for database updates. They have their own proprietary database, which you have to purchase from them separately.

Making a realistic emulation of the much more complex GTN 650 or 750 that works as realistically as the current Garmin trainer-based apps would be a massive undertaking.

The only solution to getting semi-regular updates for the current GTN add-ons would be if Garmin themselves agreed to sell expired versions of their GTN Nav data files specifically to flight sim users who use the RXP or F1 products. If Garmin ever did start such a service, I’m sure that any updates they provide would probably be several cycles behind current data, but it might be possible to get 2 or 3 updates every year that way, rather than having to wait for a new version of the trainer to be released ever 18 months or so.

RXP has hinted that they are looking at options for getting more regular updates, so quite possibly they are having some private discussions with Garmin about doing something like this, but that is purely speculation on my part.

Edited by RXP
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We a very fortunate to be able to have such a great product for Flight simming! BTW Jean Luc, you take trade ins on Garmins? 😉

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Adrian123 said:

My opinion only...Flight factor, etc are commercial type aircraft using dedicated Flight Management systems. You will not find a  GA navigation system on those type of aircraft, no was it ever intended for that use. I only use the GNS or GTN for my GA flying and the navdata is perfectly fine for that. Plus, not losing touch, this is a pseudo game simulator not RW commercial intent. IF it is so vital to have up to the moment Navdata, one can always get a Garmin subscription.

"Vital" is subjective.  Flying online requires up to date navdata.  The cost of a Garmin update is pricey for simulation.  Every other navigation tool in X-Plane is updatable with a Navigraph subscription.  Look, I'm not attacking RXP....on the contrary I'm trying to make it better.  Updatable navdata would only help them sell more units.  There has to be a way to write a code that would disallow Navigraph updates to be used in the actual Garmin units.  I absolutely understand Garmin not wanting to give away the store.  Not every suggestion requires a defense.

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/aviation/announcement-navigation/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand. But we can loose sight of what FS is or isn't.

Edited by Adrian123

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are very good and valid points in this discussion, thank you for sharing! I hear you.

No unfortunately I don't take trade-ins, enough to work on already, with the G600/500 taking an additional delay: after we've spent some days for trainer v6.50.1 compatibility and a post-update fix release, we're now awaiting P3D4.4 today to finalize yet another update.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now