Occulus Rift Use with P3D or Xplane?

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Hello all,

As stated previously I am seriously considering the switch from FS2004 to using VR (Occulus Rift?)

My question is, whilst I have both the P3Dv4 and XPlane 11, and when purchased I can utilise both sims, which of these programmes would I get the most benefit?

1. I believe XPlane has the better scenery options, ie Ortho4xp, but P3Dv4 is very much better with aircraft options and system complexity.

2. I know that both are now Native VR and whilst both are still being developed, I think in the final versions they will be very much comparable.

3. I fly mostly tube liners so VFR scenery is not exactly important but I do want good imaging from airports and surrounds.

The reason for the questions. is the fact that I would be looking a buying add ons for the chosen "winner," and being a pensioner, I do not have the option of buying for both. 

Last but not least is "exactly what is the difference between VR, AR, and Mixed Reality.  In our sim world which of these would be best (in the long term)

I am hoping to get some good feedback here because "trying" VR here in Indonesia is not an option and even buying and then getting a refund if I am not happy is ot viable because of the non-refundable taxes I have to pay on each purchase.  I simply want to get as much information as possible before making the buying decision.

Thanks in advance guys n girls

Tony Chilcott

 

 

[YukonPete 586]

If you don't own a VR headset yet I would seriously consider holding off until the next generation is available. The resolution is terrible and you can see the pixel mesh with the current units. Scenery off in the distance is fuzzy and it difficult to read the instruments.

Others will say its good and I purchased mine based on this misleading information and after 6 months I sold it. Many other have done the same.

 

Pete

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Pete,

I appreciate your response mate but I would still like to pursue which is the better aspect to approach virtual reality ... ie am I better directed towards complex aircraft or better scenery.  I have read a lot of posts in various forums which state exactly what you are saying. For me personally, I am looking towards the Pimax 8K (misnamed or no) which does claim, and I stress, claim, to have excellent resolution and 200+ degrees of FOV. The really deceptive thing is that all the videos of virtual reality show the main monitor display and not what is seen through the HMD, which, I believe, is very difficult to portray. 

So I think I am firmly in touch with the reality of the current situation.  This is just research for the near future and a last ditch attempt to migrate (happily) from FS2004 and 6 monitors.

Thanks again Pete

Regards

Tony

[YukonPete 586]

Tony,

Is VR good? Sure but its not great yet. I do think VR is the future just not with todays units. I will reinvest in VR when the units are more mature and we get great and clear resolution. 

[HiFlyer 9,359]

18 hours ago, himmelhorse said:

Hello all,

As stated previously I am seriously considering the switch from FS2004 to using VR (Occulus Rift?)

My question is, whilst I have both the P3Dv4 and XPlane 11, and when purchased I can utilise both sims, which of these programmes would I get the most benefit?

1. I believe XPlane has the better scenery options, ie Ortho4xp, but P3Dv4 is very much better with aircraft options and system complexity.

2. I know that both are now Native VR and whilst both are still being developed, I think in the final versions they will be very much comparable.

3. I fly mostly tube liners so VFR scenery is not exactly important but I do want good imaging from airports and surrounds.

The reason for the questions. is the fact that I would be looking a buying add ons for the chosen "winner," and being a pensioner, I do not have the option of buying for both. 

Last but not least is "exactly what is the difference between VR, AR, and Mixed Reality.  In our sim world which of these would be best (in the long term)

I am hoping to get some good feedback here because "trying" VR here in Indonesia is not an option and even buying and then getting a refund if I am not happy is ot viable because of the non-refundable taxes I have to pay on each purchase.  I simply want to get as much information as possible before making the buying decision.

Thanks in advance guys n girls

Tony Chilcott

 

 

I would say that currently, X-plane has the single best Vr implementation out there as far as smoothly allowing the user to comfortably fly a plane fully within the VR environment.

The current X-plane frame rates within that environment however, still tend to be disappointing, and many are looking forwards to the promised switch to Vulkan to bring X-plane vr frame rates into a more acceptable range.

P3D's ability to control a vehicle solely within the VR environment via native VR is lacking in comparison to X-planes, but the actual frame rates tend to exceed its competitor in providing a smooth experience.

As for the difference between VR and AR, hopefully this article will be helpful: http://cramer.com/story/the-difference-between-ar-and-vr/

[Gridley 257]

I posted my experience here recently.  Maybe that'll help.  I'm still flying often in P3D using the rift I have and still really enjoying it.  My experience with XPlane has not been as good with the rift.  The best simulator experience by far has been IL2: BoS - tremendous realism and performance.  DCS world 2.5 is pretty good too.

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Gridley and Hiflyer,

Hey thanks for those inputs ... both very informative.

I believe that performance for both these sims and VR use will eventually come to a more equitable state. ie both new platforms and basically both are still in VR beta. When the time comes for me to make a VR decision I think performance of the sim itself will be largely irrelevant. This will sort itself out in the fullness of time.

Therefore, I am still trying to ascertain whether having better scenery at and around airports VR,  is better than having than having a better cockpit experience with VR,  AND, what does the Occulus Rift do better. I assume the same question applies with Vive and ,(speculative) Pimax. The difference in performance eventually is probably going to be less than the difference in price LOL,

In essence, then, my questions still stand .. do current users think Rift is better looking around the cockpit or better looking out at the scenery and again, the only relevance with this question is buying addons for my choice of sim. These will begin shortly whilst waiting for the next gen(?) HMDs Whether or not to go Vitual Reality is a foregone conclusion because I really want to upgrade from FS2004 for scenery, aircraft and utility reasons. If I could duplicate my set up in 64bit platforms, I woud not be considering VR as yet. I am very much hoping that VR will eventually give me the immersion that 6 monitors does right now. I really think VR is the only way to migrate and feel as though I have upgraded and not gone backwards. This is not a denigration of the 64bit platforms but using less than 6 monitors is a giant step backwards for me personally. I do know that there are thousands who will disagree with me and I am not here to start an argument.

Cheers to you all

Tony

[Gridley 257]

That's a tough question, as you know.  With the higher resolution VR headsets will come much higher demand on GPU and CPU.  You really can't get that without going to a 64-bit sim (P3Dv4.1 or XP11). 

I've tried out a few multi-monitor setups (not six!  Nice work!) with TrackIR and the immersion of the cockpit, even currently with the rift, is MUCH better in VR.  You can see the knobs and switches sticking out and the glare shield has real depth, and you feel how close your head is to the ceiling...it's impressive.  In IL2-BoS, I find myself putting on the autopilot just so I can move my head around those claustrophobic WWII pits just to see all the gauges around my feet and on the sides of the seat!  There's even a setting to make a noise when I virtually bump my head on the canopy or wall! I think that has been the most impactful part of VR for me. 

The scenery outside is impressive because you can sense depth and altitude, but the relatively low resolution takes more of a toll on that than inside.  No reason to run 4096 res textures in VR.  1024s (or less) are totally sufficient. Horizon gets pretty jaggy and blurred.

 

 

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Gridley,

 

7 minutes ago, Gridley said:

That's a tough question, as you know.  With the higher resolution VR headsets will come much higher demand on GPU and CPU.  You really can't get that without going to a 64-bit sim (P3Dv4.1 or XP11). 

I've tried out a few multi-monitor setups (not six!  Nice work!) with TrackIR and the immersion of the cockpit, even currently with the rift, is MUCH better in VR.  You can see the knobs and switches sticking out and the glare shield has real depth, and you feel how close your head is to the ceiling...it's impressive.  In IL2-BoS, I find myself putting on the autopilot just so I can move my head around those claustrophobic WWII pits just to see all the gauges around my feet and on the sides of the seat!  There's even a setting to make a noise when I virtually bump my head on the canopy or wall! I think that has been the most impactful part of VR for me. 

The scenery outside is impressive because you can sense depth and altitude, but the relatively low resolution takes more of a toll on that than inside.  No reason to run 4096 res textures in VR.  1024s (or less) are totally sufficient. Horizon gets pretty jaggy and blurred.

 

 

That is EXACTLY the answer I sought. Thank you.  

I firmly believe that in the long term, the resolutions issues will be resolved to the point where inside or outside the cockpit will make relatively little difference. For the NOW though, that was the information I wanted.

Do we have a consensus of opinion on this or has somebody got a different perspective?

[HiFlyer 9,359]

Only that you can alter the apparent resolution by using supersampling. This is a sort of brute force antialiasing that can make the vr image appear clearer, at a significant framerate cost if you don't have hardware powerful to handle it.

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Gridley,

 

2 hours ago, Gridley said:

That's a tough question, as you know.  With the higher resolution VR headsets will come much higher demand on GPU and CPU.  You really can't get that without going to a 64-bit sim (P3Dv4.1 or XP11). 

I've tried out a few multi-monitor setups (not six!  Nice work!) with TrackIR and the immersion of the cockpit, even currently with the rift, is MUCH better in VR.  You can see the knobs and switches sticking out and the glare shield has real depth, and you feel how close your head is to the ceiling...it's impressive.  In IL2-BoS, I find myself putting on the autopilot just so I can move my head around those claustrophobic WWII pits just to see all the gauges around my feet and on the sides of the seat!  There's even a setting to make a noise when I virtually bump my head on the canopy or wall! I think that has been the most impactful part of VR for me. 

The scenery outside is impressive because you can sense depth and altitude, but the relatively low resolution takes more of a toll on that than inside.  No reason to run 4096 res textures in VR.  1024s (or less) are totally sufficient. Horizon gets pretty jaggy and blurred.

 

 

That is EXACTLY the answer I sought. Thank you.  

I firmly believe that in the long term, the resolutions issues will be resolved to the point where inside or outside the cockpit will make relatively little difference. For the NOW though, that was the information I wanted.

Do we have a consensus of opinion on this or has somebody got a different perspective?

 

Hiflyer.

I was actually aware of that but I figured that with my hardware will probably be best left alone until I upgrade.

Thanks again to you all for responding .. my final decision will be left until well after Pimax 8k hits the market and is fully reviewed.  I like the sound of it and if it is produced as they have stated, it is going to be a beauty.  However, I am predicting a purchase of Occulus Rift 2.0 LOL

Cheers all

Tony 

[Beeline90 12]

Just a quick addition to the debate from a Pimax 4k perspective.

Immediate impressions when I bought this was wow when I sat in the pmdg737 cockpit for the first time. As gridley says the depth perception, sense of altitude and scale are amazing. I find the Pimax 4k resolution fine with supersampling 1.2 but I did need to upgrade from a overclocked 2600k to 8700k to get a smooth experience with p3d settings at medium. I would find it hard to go back to a monitor as VR immersion is so realistic, inside and outside of the flight deck.

 

The pimax 4k isn't perfect though. Only pan and tilt axis unlike the occulus and some lens edge blur but it doesn't bother me as the experience makes up for that. Screen door effect in the Pimax is barely noticeable and the resolution allows me to read the gauges comfortably. There is some shimmer of distant scenery detail however.

 

The problem you may have is that everyone's experience and critique of VR is subjective.Some people can't tolerate screen door effect, some can't tolerate shimmering of scenery detail etc and you will not know your personal intolerances ( if any ) until you try a head set.

The reason I went for the Pimax was because, like yourself, I'm new to VR and wanted a cheaper option to test the waters rather then spend a lot of money on a "first" head set.

 

Nigel

 

 

[NeilC 3]

I spend most of my time flying tubeliners (mostly the MaddogX) in VR with my Oculus using FlyInside. 

Whilst there are some shortcomings with current VR tech, th pluses still far outweigh the negatives. The feeling of being there, the depth in the flightdeck (leaning forward to program the FMC instead of pressing a zoom button) are mind blowing. 

Performance could be better (especially with a complex aircraft in heavy weather), but if you stop watching the FPS counter, and just enjoy the immersion, it truly is mind blowing. 

I run a 6700 @ 4.5 and a GTX1080