What went wrong with fuel /tank/engines?

[Michael Moe 494]

Hi. Its bin awhile since i took the mighty Queen out for a flight or two so i was exited to do 2 leg as KLM785 and KLM730 between Amsterdam and Saint Maarten on legendary rute with the Queen. 

Unfortunately my experince with multi tanks is in a small place so i decided to let the Queen handle those pumps during the flight. 

On my return leg to Amsterdam during the long taxi in from 18R both engine 1 and 4 was out of fuel. About 8.2 tons in 3 and 4.

Takeoff fuel was 94500kgs.

So what did I miss? 

What shall i learn if i want to manage the tanks in the future on a leg like this? 

 

Update. I just read Kyles thread and it could seem like a bug? The sim was setup to handle those pumps. 

Alternativ maybe FS2Crew? 

Maybe crossfeed outer was off before innertanks was at same level? 

Fuel transfer 1/4 is normally set to on during taxi. Is this because of hydraulic pressure to those systems? Allthough AUX is an option on both 

Thanks Michael Moe

[Captain Kevin 586]

How did you load the fuel. You can't use the default FSX or P3D fuel loader, you need to use the PMDG fuel loader via the FMC. How much fuel was in each tank.

[voske 34]

My guess is that you didn't switch the fuel crossfeed valves 1 and 4 to on (the unguarded fuel crossfeed switches) before the flight. As a result, Main Tank 1 was supplying engine 1, Main Tanks 2 and 3 (and the Center and Stab Tanks if they contained any fuel) supplying engines 2 and 3, and Main Tank 4 supplying engine 4. However, Main Tanks 2 and 3 can hold much more fuel than Main Tanks 1 and 4. Therefore, you have to switch the crossfeeds valves to on to use Main Tanks 2 and 3 (and Center and Stab Tanks) to supply engines 1 and 4 with fuel if you depart with more than 54.400 kgs / 120.000 lbs of fuel.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

54 minutes ago, Michael Moe said:

Update. I just read Kyles thread and it could seem like a bug? The sim was setup to handle those pumps. 

No, clearly it wasn't set up properly. Re-read it please. Just because the sim doesn't do what you expect, or because you do not understand what it's telling you, does not mean that it's a bug. Clearly, you've come in here to seek support and answers. As such, do you really think you're in a position to simply write something off as a bug this early in the discussion? I'd argue no. That's pretty irresponsible.

 

Understand first before firing off accusations, please (and yes, I see that you wrote 'maybe' but that only goes so far).

 

[Michael Moe 494]

6 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

No, clearly it wasn't set up properly. Re-read it please. Just because the sim doesn't do what you expect, or because you do not understand what it's telling you, does not mean that it's a bug. Clearly, you've come in here to seek support and answers. As such, do you really think you're in a position to simply write something off as a bug this early in the discussion? I'd argue no. That's pretty irresponsible.

 

Understand first before firing off accusations, please (and yes, I see that you wrote 'maybe' but that only goes so far).

 

I should not have said bug offcause. Wasnt my actually intentions since i hardly have gone into the FCOMS on this bird as clearly as crystal 😀

Sorry for that and well  noted. 

Michael Moe 

 

 

[Michael Moe 494]

The before start checklist clearly state that the Captain need to set and check the fuel and crossfeed so indeed it must be me switching those (also with FS2crew) 😎 1and 4 to on was missing. 

Thanks every one and no hard feelings here. Love the product 😀

Thanks Michael Moe 

 

 

 

 

[soerennielsen 35]

4 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

No, clearly it wasn't set up properly. Re-read it please. Just because the sim doesn't do what you expect, or because you do not understand what it's telling you, does not mean that it's a bug. Clearly, you've come in here to seek support and answers. As such, do you really think you're in a position to simply write something off as a bug this early in the discussion? I'd argue no. That's pretty irresponsible.

 

Understand first before firing off accusations, please (and yes, I see that you wrote 'maybe' but that only goes so far).

 

I am with you here Kyle, how dare he ask such a silly and stupid question?  And at the same time make "accusations" to mighty PMDG. Hmm!

Hope you understand Michael.

[Guest]

Wow. Just, wow.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

5 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

The before start checklist clearly state that the Captain need to set and check the fuel and crossfeed so indeed it must be me switching those (also with FS2crew) 😎 1and 4 to on was missing. 

Confused as to your meaning here. 'Set' in aviation-speak means "set in the proper position," and not simply "change the position from one to the other."

As noted in the other thread:

If inner tank fuel is greater than outer tanks, then 1, 2, 3, 4 and OVRD pumps should be on, with the crossfeeds OPEN.
If inner tank fuel is equal to the outer tanks, then 1, 2, 3, 4 pumps should be ON. OVRD should be OFF. Crossfeeds should be CLOSED.
If inner tank fuel is less than the outer tanks, then you need to resolve the issue before an imbalance occurs, and review the two lines above.

1 hour ago, soerennielsen said:

I am with you here Kyle, how dare he ask such a silly and stupid question?  And at the same time make "accusations" to mighty PMDG. Hmm!

Hope you understand Michael.

Don't warp my words.

Asking the question isn't the issue. Asking the question and asserting/implying that it's a bug is irresponsible.

Hope you understand the proper form of discussions Soeren. This isn't a joke. Don't make it into one, and don't try to pour fuel on a fire.

27 minutes ago, junkyspam7 said:

Wow. Just, wow.

This is...helpful.

Is there a rainbow, or some sort of wonder that I missed?

[berts 97]

1 hour ago, scandinavian13 said:

Is there a rainbow, or some sort of wonder that I missed?

Yes there is, Kyle!  For "Bug" you can usually read it as "Pilot Error"!

Bertie Goddard

[Michael Moe 494]

I have a saved flight just prior to takeoff and prior to land , because i wanted to make a nice video with Chaseplane Replay and Shadowplay from this nice location so will report back to tell how i was missing the configuration before takeoff . I am also in doubt wether FS2CREW SOP2 is suppose to handle those pumps/valves as well.? (not the EICAS message commands inflight)  Cant find it exactly in the FS2CREW manual regarding those Crossfeed 1 and 4.

The Captain is in any case responsively to check them at least mentioned in the before start checklist .

 

My second question about 1 and 4 transfer to on in the after land checklist . Anyone who can educate me to that ? 

 

Thanks

Michael Moe

 

 

[PLund 15]

Michael,

When FUEL/TANK ENG comes up on EICAS say "fuel tank to engine" and the FO will set the pumps.

Otherwise you can in the FMC (think its in options) set it so it will automatic set the pumps when reaching FUEL/TANK ENG.

[Michael Moe 494]

3 hours ago, PLund said:

Michael,

When FUEL/TANK ENG comes up on EICAS say "fuel tank to engine" and the FO will set the pumps.

Otherwise you can in the FMC (think its in options) set it so it will automatic set the pumps when reaching FUEL/TANK ENG.

Yep i know and did but this was not the questions 

I am talking about if the FO should enable(on) the crossfeed valves for 1 and 4 on ground before takeoff or if they are totally Captain area (FS2CREW SOP2)

Thanks Michael Moe

[Michael Moe 494]

came across this thread over at FS2CREW

 

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/523260-why-does-the-fo-drain-the-outer-tanks-after-landing-sop-2/

 

Thanks

Michael Moe

[Michael Moe 494]

Hi again,

So i tried out my saved flight for takeoff and landing and it seems that everything was in perfect place. Only different is my memory of starting fuel from PFPX. 93.7tons it was at the gate.

se picture below for takeoff and nearing ILS18R (Vatsim gave me 250 knots order that day all the way down to 2000feet yaks)

https://imgur.com/yYaHlah

https://imgur.com/HFIc3Dm

https://imgur.com/elFDxc7

https://imgur.com/ZkGS1CY

 

Seems like Bryan York has programmed this in the FS2CREW SOP2 (draining the fuel in 1 and 4 after landing) which some airliners aparently do.

Thanks

Michael Moe