FSX/FSX-SE? FMC & ATC

[Barry Rogers 0]

HI Guys,

FSX Steam user.

great site and thanks to everyone for spreading their knowledge so freely.

My question is:

If you are flying between to cities and you are using the fmc and following the registered flight plan with lnav, how far from your destination

do you go "manual" and start taking instruction from the ATC regarding the landing pattern?.

I mean it's ok to just fly in to an airport without atc  but you are more than likely going to take out another plane on the runway.

if one requires realism then i'm sure there has to be a correct procedure.

Bazza

 

 

 

 

[Guest T7747BA]

Welcome! Hope you will enjoy your stay here.

It's been awhile since I touched FSX. Only recently i'm starting to slowly going back on it.

But, anyway. When I was flying almost on a daily basis, I would usually disable the autopilot before descent (which is usually at 4,000ft) and hand-fly the aircraft until I perfectly got lined up with the runway. This if the runway i was gonna land to had only VOR/DME approaches and not ILS vectors. Whenever it had ILS vectors, instead, I would always disable the autopilot right when the plane started descending. 

I always flew with TCAS systems on and with the radar display set to traffic. So whenever I would see an aircraft taking off or coming my way, be it on the radar or with my own eyes, I would just advance the throttles, retract the flaps according to the speed and the FD, climbed and maintained 5,000ft (sometimes 8,000ft or even more if there were any mountains in front of me) and just make a 360° turn (or even more slow sequential turns) and flew a few miles before starting to make another landing attempt. Only at this point would I contact the ATC and follow their instructions for my landing.

This is the only procedure that I ever used whenever I encountered traffic during landing. Though, mind you, I always had my AI traffic slider set to 10%-15%. So it was very rare, for me, to encounter another aircraft taking off or lined up on the runway, especially when I landed in very small airports such as LICR or LIPO. But, yeah. You never really know when you gonna cross another aircraft, be in the air or when you are landing. That's why I suggest you you always have TCAS systems on (if you fly an add-on aircraft that has it builted in).

Hope this little "tutorial" helped you, somewhat.

Cheers ;)

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Bazza,

I do not know if you want to follow this procedure or not, but this is the way I fly (jets)

Generally, I use the IFly Boeings with default ATC in FS2004 but the ATC system in FSXi s pretty similar. First of all, during the preflight, I align the IRS and programme the FMC. I do NOT have the flight in MS flight planning system, so I cannot request an IFR clearance or departure.  When ready to taxi, I call ATC requesting a VFR taxi for the relevant departure (north south etc) which is given. If I am at an unknown airport this gives me access to progressive taxi although I prefer to use airport charts. When I arrive at the hold postition for the runway, I then change to Tower and request take off. This avoids aircraft conflicts etc. Once cleared I am able to take off and immediately after rotation I am handed off to another frequency.  I now have two choices ....request flight following (this demands almost constant frequency changes ie flying from Brisbane to Townsville (Queensland, Australia)  a distance iof about 700 NM I was given 52 frequency changes. This drives me crazy so I opt for just going to 1200 and no flight following until I get close to destination. I then access "Nearest" in default ATC and when in range I click on the relevant airport, change to that frequency, and request a full stop landing. ATC then follows me in to landing and then give me taxi to gate instructions. The added benefit here is that if you flight plan through a payware or a good freeware flight planner,  this provides altitude and flight level restrictions which go into the FMC. Using Vnav gives you an automatic descent point which is ignored if you are in VFR mode. I know that this is far from adequate but I feel it is a better system than filing a flight plan and then largely ignoring it because it is not going to fully follow your FMC programming, or having to choose between the two.

Please bear in mind also, that to my knowledge, all flight sims and excellent default ATC suffer a mutual exclusivity. If you want good ATC AND FSX, you only have one alternative and that is any one of quite a few good addon ATC programmes, none of which I am going to recommend, because they are a very personal preference and you have quite a bit of research in front of you.   Another big advantage for the addons is that you can actually talk to the programme in lieu of clicking the ATC screen or pushing the relevant number on the keyboard. They also provide ATC services in a far more professional and realistic manner.

I probably have not helped you much with this response but, it is an alternative if you are going to persist with a substandard default ATC

Cheers mate.

Tony 

[Barry Rogers 0]

Hi guys, thx for the replies.

maybe I should explain how I fly and then it will be understood a little better. Whether this is right or wrong way I do not know.

1st I make a flight plan in FSX SE so that I can get the correct departure runway etc etc. 

Then I input my flight plan and all other info into the FMC

once airborne I switch to autopilot and enable Vnav & Lnav and follow the route to my destination.

I do not use ATC at any stage during the flight.

Now, I like to land manually and get into a proper landing pattern so as to not

to have any conflict with other aircraft on final approach or landing..

At about 30kms out from landing I  switch off  auto pilot and I go manual and switch to ATC for final approach directions.

This works great.

But my actual question is how far from the airport should I switch from autopilot to ATC?

Is 30kms too far out or too near the airport?

 

Or should I be landing with a different type of approach?

 

thanks in advance

 

[Captain Kevin 586]

1 hour ago, Barry Rogers said:

But my actual question is how far from the airport should I switch from autopilot to ATC?

This question makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Air traffic control has nothing to do with the autopilot. In any event, you can disconnect the autopilot as you see fit. I'd say generally speaking, you'd want to disconnect it by 500 or 1,000 feet above the ground unless you're trying to do an autoland, then you wouldn't disconnect the autopilot until after you landed.

[Barry Rogers 0]

hi

ok so I flying Melbourne to Cairns

once airborne I am on auto pilot following the flight plan as per the fmc.

during the flight I do not use the FSX ATC .

Once I am within a certain distance of Cairns I switch to ATC to get a landing pattern

What I am trying to ascertain is how far or at what point from Cairns do I start taking instructions from ATC?

 

 

[pete_auau 1,155]

as  soon  as  your  able  to  contact   them  by memory havnt  used  fsx  atc  think  its  around  30  kms  or  so

[Barry Rogers 0]

which is basically what I do. Just trying to find out if there is any procedure I should other than that which I am currently doing

 

[harrry 322]

You get the landing pattern from the ATIS  along with the weather there is no need to contact ATC you tune the radio for ATIS. you can get this when in VHF range.  Frequency for straight FSX is obtained from the map in FSX.  If you are using Addons this is not the case.

 

[Barry Rogers 0]

Harry, yes, I am aware of that.

but

scenario

I fly to airport using fmc and do not use atc for instructions

I make my approach, switch off autopilot at around 500 feet

and then you see there is a plane in position to take off on the runway.

If using ATC this does not happen and the runway is clear.

If you watch actual pilots on approach they are taking instructions from ATC continually.

[pete_auau 1,155]

8 minutes ago, Barry Rogers said:

Harry, yes, I am aware of that.

but

scenario

I fly to airport using fmc and do not use atc for instructions

I make my approach, switch off autopilot at around 500 feet

and then you see there is a plane in position to take off on the runway.

If using ATC this does not happen and the runway is clear.

If you watch actual pilots on approach they are taking instructions from ATC continually.

this  is  why  fsx  atc  isnt  much  good,  you  got  2  choices   either  go  to vatsim or  get   a atc  addon   there  are  a  few  around(pro atc is  probaly  the  best  around IMO)   which will  talk  you on  take off  which  rwy  to take  off  to landing on which  rwy  to land  at

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Barry,

I think you are pretty much aware of the extreme limitations of default ATC. Pete is probablyt right in that you should be going to an ATC add on if you want good ATC.

However, I am not reading your request this way.  If I am correct, the informatio0n you seek is that, due to the above mentioned bad default ATC, you will rarely get the tower until you get within about 30NM from your intended landing strip.

As I do with my version, I stay off air until range then call the tower (using Nearest airport) for a full stop landing.  They will then give you a landing pattern and eventually clearance to land. I alsways (on descent) change wind direction and speed from the "World" taskbar, so I know what Runway they will give me. (generally that is)  I have been given a rwy for takeoff with a 16 knot tailwind and the same applies to some landings) Again all this is due to our never, ever updated, or not even thought about, default ATC

I use default ATC through sheer laziness and only use it for taxi for take off, take off then fly my route until the required 30NM and call them up again. If you get them to flight follow after take off you will spend more time changing frequencies than you will flying.

Is this the information you were chasing.

Regards

Tony

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Barry,

Sorry, I also wanted to mention that there is quite simply no need to file a flight plan through FSX if you use my method. If you are indeed silly enough (LOL) to file and then input you plan to the FMC and include a SID or Star, default ATC will vector you away from your SID as soon as your wheels leave the ground and before they stop spinning, simply because they do not recognize them.  I think, that, about the only way you can utilize a filed flight plan is to do so in the air (after leaving the SID) and then cancelling before descent as they will step you down to their height requirements without regard to your FMC programming. This is very simply frustrating in the extreme to my mind anyway. Also, because they do not recognize the Star they will ignore that too.  So, with due deference to Pete, you have not two but three choices but they are to use ATC but not the FMC, or dont use default ATC and just go with your FMC, or use it like I do and NONE of these options are really satisfying nor remotely realistic.

Cheers mate

Tony 

[Barry Rogers 0]

Hi himmelhorse.

Thats exactly what I do. I use them for taxing and then about 30 away from airport use them for a landing pattern.

 

If everyone else uses about 30 nm then thats ok ..

 

thats all my question was really about

 

rgds

 

 

[himmelhorse 1,276]

barry,

I am really glad that we were able to sort that out for you. If you want to persist with default ATC you have no further options. 

However, despite the fact that I do not yet use an addon ATC, I would sincerely recommend some further research into an ATC add on. They are really good and add immeasurably to the immersion factor. I am only holding off with ATC because I am researching the VR aspect of flight simming.

Good luck with any further decisions and the way forward is a steep way up.

Regards

Tony