Trying to purchase the DC6 for XP

[GCBraun 2,390]

Hi Andres, I am also very disappointed that the DC6 still does not work with XP11. I bought the airplane just some months before XP11's release and was hoping for an update that would allow me to continue to use the product. Two years have passed, and this update has not come out.

This topic has been discussed multiple times on this Forum and Robert (PMDGs Boss) has stated that they might look at the possibility of updating this bird after the incoming releases for P3D. Not the best news ever, but at least there is a glimpse of hope.

 

[harrry 322]

Microsoft puts its requirements in the form of Windows 7 plus.

Lockheed Martin puts its requrements as:

Microsoft Windows 7 SP1 (64-bit)

It is not hard where to see where the confusion lies.

 

I am not happy with PMDG abandoning its general policy of extended lifetime updates which it applied to other products but not this.  I happily pay the premium to PMDG knowing i get a good product with a long support life.  It seems that may no longer be the case.

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

Harry,

You have me a bit confused.  What policy are you speaking of?  I am the person who sets product policy at PMDG and I have no clue what you are talking about- so that tells me you probably don't either. 

Our product update policy has, if anything, become significantly more liberal to the benefit of customers over the years.  In 1998, we issued new products for each new platform change.  If MSFS changed from version X to version X+1, you had to purchase the product anew.

We developed, advertised for, and released an XPlane product for XPL10.  We then shifted development resources to other projects, as we always do when a project is released.  The fact that XPL has updated to v11 in the mean time is completely and totally irrelevant to our development timeline.

I hate to make you do any actual work here, Harry- but have you taken even 10 seconds to read anything I have posted in this forum on this very topic?  Or are you just pulling stupid ideas out of thin air because you are upset that you aren't getting what you want, when you want it?

I am sorry that you are disappointed by it, but you can rest assured that everyone else in this forum joins you in knowing more about how PMDG should be run than I do- because you guys are quite vocal in your viewpoint that "PMDG are doing it wrong."

Yet somehow we survive...  I'll try harder to do better for your personally next time, Harry- but if you or someone who DOES know-it-all would please make a habit of being around when we are making decisions next time- that would be helpful... 

 

 

 

[BlueStar 323]

5 hours ago, rsrandazzo said:

Yet somehow we survive..

I do recognize your business model from graduate school.  

blaustern

Edited February 25, 2018 by Bluestar

[harrry 322]

 You survive because you do produce good products.  Your future survival depends on continuing that and hoping that others do not produce matching products.  

The change from v 10 to v11 is a fairly minor change,  Much like the continual update cycles within Versions in P3D.

I have bought many of your products and will probably continue to do so as they are very good simulations.  I have in fact read much of what you and others have said.  I recall with P3D you promised to continue support through the conversion to 64bit and you did.  This is a much greater period than you have applied to X-Plane.  Yes you have said that you "may" look at the DC6 after all the other projects are finished.  It however does not work now and many X-plane users have a hangered product that they were only able to use for a few months.

You can run your business as you want.

My past feeling was that you had a policy of providing the best possible product and providing a high level of support for it for a quite reasonable period. It seems you think I am mistaken in this as being your policy.  I and others have been around, and have expressed our feelings when asked and generally in a reasonable manner.  I do respect you as a businessman however it must be said that when people as customers have said something which we feel  that is not the company line we get put down and told we know nothing as we do not make the decisions.  We may not know it all but we do know the perceptions we get and it is after all perceptions which generate sales.

Rather sad.

By the way, since 2015 I have purchased 5 of your aircraft.  5 aircraft are of little importance to you but I am just one of many customers with questions it seems. I probably will buy more but right now I have an Airbus to fly.

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by harrry

[scandinavian13 5,192]

5 hours ago, harrry said:

You survive because you do produce good products.  Your future survival depends on continuing that and hoping that others do not produce matching products.

Assuming that we were only releasing stuff in XPL, and were dependent solely on the DC-6, sure.

5 hours ago, harrry said:

The change from v 10 to v11 is a fairly minor change

...and yet, the DC-6 mostly worked in v11 with a little bit of work, and then suddenly stopped after one of the updates.

Might also be work looking into the concept of opportunity costs.

5 hours ago, harrry said:

I recall with P3D you promised to continue support through the conversion to 64bit and you did.  This is a much greater period than you have applied to X-Plane.  Yes you have said that you "may" look at the DC6 after all the other projects are finished.  It however does not work now and many X-plane users have a hangered product that they were only able to use for a few months.

This fails to recognize the choices people have. Nobody showed up at your door and said "you must go to XP11 now." I still have an XBOX 360 next to my XBOX ONE because I need the 360 to play some of my older titles. This isn't unique to simming...at all.

Moreover, you, yourself, pointed out the clarity with which we told people: we will support P3D purchases through this specific point. With the XPL DC-6, we only said XP10. If anyone assumed XP10 meant "XP10, any beyond in perpetuity," then I'd suggest having a look around at industry standards.

Again: if I buy something for my current OS, current gaming system, current car, or anything else with versions, then in just about every case, you're buying it for specifically what it's marketed for. If it works thereafter - great. Should that be expected unless explicitly stated? No.

5 hours ago, harrry said:

My past feeling was that you had a policy of providing the best possible product and providing a high level of support for it for a quite reasonable period. It seems you think I am mistaken in this as being your policy.  I and others have been around, and have expressed our feelings when asked and generally in a reasonable manner.  I do respect you as a businessman however it must be said that when people as customers have said something which we feel  that is not the company line we get put down and told we know nothing as we do not make the decisions.  We may not know it all but we do know the perceptions we get and it is after all perceptions which generate sales.

Rather sad.

I'm confused as to how any of this is sad. What, exactly, is your interpretation of "the company line." I see a lot of inferences to it being your idea of how you think we should operate, but I have yet to see you actually flesh the idea out in enough detail to see if it matches reality at all.

5 hours ago, harrry said:

By the way, since 2015 I have purchased 5 of your aircraft.  5 aircraft are of little importance to you but I am just one of many customers with questions it seems. I probably will buy more but right now I have an Airbus to fly.

Questions about a single one of them, and how we marketed it for a single platform and are not going out of our way to update it for a new platform?

I'm also unsure of what you're trying to say in regards to how anyone is unimportant. If you have a purchase, and you have a problem with said purchase, we will work to resolve that issue. If your issue is "my plane isn't working in a sim it was never designed for," or "you should update this plane for a new sim regardless of everything else you're working on because I expect that of you," then that really isn't a valid issue. The DC-6 wasn't made for the Linux version of XPL, either. We never said it would be. We also never promised it for Aerofly FS2.

Is it valid of people to want what you're asking for? Absolutely. Is it reasonable of people to demand it, or claim we're ignoring them, or somehow being unfair for not doing what is asked? No. Right now, it's not a priority. That doesn't mean we're not being fair. We made a product, for a platform. If someone chooses to abandon that platform, then that is their choice. All choices have some sort of consequence.

 

Nice try at the Airbus dig, by the way...cute. Really good way to have a respectful conversation about the topics you're trying to put across as serious and important. It doesn't, at all, undermine any of what you said before it. Not one bit...

[Tail Dragger 7]

Reading this thread is a waste of time. Excuses, complacency, pettiness and empty talk. Just another company that will never see a cent of me again. Bye.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

6 hours ago, Tail Dragger said:

Reading this thread is a waste of time. Excuses, complacency, pettiness and empty talk. Just another company that will never see a cent of me again. Bye.

...and yet you stuck around to add a reply? Human behavior is a rather interesting study.

1. A fact is not quite an excuse. The 6 was marketed for XP10, and delivered for XP11. Anything outside of that isn't related to an excuse - it's a failure by the opposite party to recognize fact. 'Excuse' implies fault or blame. I'm sorry, but we have been nothing but clear about the platform the DC-6 was for. Any assumptions, assertions, or irritation about it not being developed for anything other than the listed platform are purely the responsibility of those holding those viewpoints.
2. Complacency doesn't really come into the equation at all, given point 1...much less the fact that we're continuing to innovate (literally the opposite of complacency), and develop other products.
3. Empty talk would be related to the concept of empty promises, which would be an assertion that we promised something and did not deliver, which isn't the case here. The DC-6 was for XP10, FSX, and P3D (the latter being subject to the clearly defined "P3D through x64 transition" path, which, you will note, XP did not have - simply "XP10"). Any expectation outside of what was clearly defined isn't "empty talk," it's holding out false hope by ignoring fact.

It's one thing to disagree. It's quite another to try and smear. If you'd like to have a discussion, reel it in and put the ax down. Wielding an ax in here isn't going to end well, though...