FF A320 Ultimate is now available!

[kneighbour 32]

On 2/17/2018 at 2:16 PM, JustanotherPilot said:

I've been excited for this release but at $A114, it's way over my budget, I'll be sticking with the IXEG 737 and the Zibo 737 for my airliner flying in XP11.

I am in the same boat as you. But in the end it is cheap considering the number of hours you will spend in it. I have already spent a lot of hours watching videos and printing out and studying manuals. Well worth the immersion and time spent, I think.

And apart from the activation process (which they stuffed up), it has been a joy. From the updater it seems that they have already updated the thing a couple of times.

But I really like the Zibo as well - that has come along very nicely.

[kneighbour 32]

On 2/17/2018 at 8:13 AM, tonywob said:

Expensive indeed. 

I've watched a few beta videos on this, and I'm curious if the product includes decent tutorials and documentation, or are you expected to already know an Airbus before using this?

You are expected to know it. There is basically no documentation - but links to real aircraft manuals. I can see the thinking behind this and agree. There is no way a short tutorial will be that much use. Learning this aircraft is not a simple thing, so what could a 5 minute tutorial do?

Personally, I think this is one of the attractions of a study level aircraft like this. You need to study the manuals as would a RL pilot. I have been flying flight sims since the late 70's and I thought I knew enough to fly anything. But it turns out I was wrong. There is so much to learn with this aircraft I am frankly, excited to be back in XP again.

 

[costamesa 88]

17 hours ago, kneighbour said:

You are expected to know it. There is basically no documentation - but links to real aircraft manuals. I can see the thinking behind this and agree. There is no way a short tutorial will be that much use. Learning this aircraft is not a simple thing, so what could a 5 minute tutorial do?

Personally, I think this is one of the attractions of a study level aircraft like this. You need to study the manuals as would a RL pilot. I have been flying flight sims since the late 70's and I thought I knew enough to fly anything. But it turns out I was wrong. There is so much to learn with this aircraft I am frankly, excited to be back in XP again.

 

Still...A tutorial flight would be very very useful for people like me who are coming from P3D just to buy this aircraft.

[Xiropillo 13]

8 hours ago, costamesa said:

Still...A tutorial flight would be very very useful for people like me who are coming from P3D just to buy this aircraft.

And you are not asking too much for that price. I agree.

[Guest]

Surely it would be useful, but seriously don't expect it to ever be included. They don't even produce changelogs for updates, which I consider to be essential for customers to know what they can expect from an updated version. From what I gather FF just don't operate on the same level of professionalism when it comes to process management as for instance PMDG, FSLabs, or some XP devs even. (See also the very unusual open beta process). This can be kind of refreshing sometimes, because they actually give out more information, but it also leads to confusion and lack of guidance for new customers. 

[Guest Mik75]

Well, to be honest, I don’t think that this addon is exactly the right one for someone who’s not familiar with Airbus systems and the typical way of flying an A320 family aircraft. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to sound harsh or anything. It’s not a problem or a “shame” to be unfamiliar with this kind of tubeliner flying! ;-) 

But, they’re quite clearly aiming towards the “hardcore” and “nerdy” people with this kind of system fidelity and depth of simulation. Sure, you can learn to fly the Airbus way in this addon. In this case, it would truly be the best (most effective) for yourself and your investment (because then you can get the most out of your money), if you would read a FCOM. And, as already said a few times, you could start off by watching a few YouTube videos. But to be frank, I think, there’s no way around having a closer look at an original FCOM if you really want to dig in! This simulation is truly a game changer for the XP world (at least for the die hard tube fans world). ;-) And last, but not least, you should not forget about the price. Compared to other high end offerings from other devs on other platforms, the FF A320U has a very attractive price! 

[carlito777 712]

Yes, I second that. I never understood why developers spend their precious time on things like tutorial flights. Nowadays, there are so many great and free sources of information available. Apart from written documents, Youtubers like Blackbox711 are a far more efficient and also better way to learn how to fly an Airbus. Blackbox711, for example, was a real-world Airbus pilot, who can teach you tons of things on how to operate the bus in a much better (and correct) way than a tutorial flight or add-on manual ever could. So why should devs waste time on these things. They should rather focus their time on developing new features and ironing out bugs. 

[Guest]

On 2/16/2018 at 4:40 PM, blocks_off said:

FFA320 very sensitive to my joystick, FSlabs requires more effort.

I've had some time in both FF A320 and FSLabs A320 ... didn't notice much of a difference in Yoke sensitivity ... seemed about the same in both platforms (I'm using a Yoko Yoke).  The only oddity, and probably my biggest complaint, I didn't like in the +/- switch operation in the FF ... becomes a big problem when you're trying to do a lot quickly in those "busy" stages of flight.  Fortunately I'll be mapping all the FF controls to my GoFlight gear via Steve's GIT product so it will become less of an issue, but I would have preferred a better method of manipulating the switches and dials.  

The audio on the FSLabs A320 seems much better with just about every operation emulated ... FF A320 seems to be missing some audio queues and just too quiet.   On the FPS front both are very good with the FF version having the edge but that's hard to compare given the different platforms and graphics options ... i.e. if I turned down some of the options in P3D V4 to match my XP11 settings, then P3D V4 would probably win the FPS race, but since I lock to 30Hz/30 FPS it's not that relevant as both hit 30 FPS with lots of add-ons and weather.

As mentioned the Airbus A320 is relatively simple to fly "normally" compared to 737, 747, 777.   I'm no A320 expert, but I have gone over the various videos/tutorials available and like many have suggested, it has to be the most "automated" aircraft in it's class ... I guess the challenge is when things go wrong ... I'm not there yet.

Don't consider this a review, just some input.  Both are exceptionally good and I would consider the FF A320 the best of the best for commercial aircraft in XP11, yes even better than the IXEG 737 (with 1.21 update).

Cheers, Rob.

[MarioDonick 752]

6 hours ago, carlito777 said:

Yes, I second that. I never understood why developers spend their precious time on things like tutorial flights. Nowadays, there are so many great and free sources of information available. Apart from written documents, Youtubers like Blackbox711 are a far more efficient and also better way to learn how to fly an Airbus. Blackbox711, for example, was a real-world Airbus pilot, who can teach you tons of things on how to operate the bus in a much better (and correct) way than a tutorial flight or add-on manual ever could. So why should devs waste time on these things. They should rather focus their time on developing new features and ironing out bugs. 

There are different types of learners. Some (like myself) prefer reading, others need videos, others need a real human besides them, and so on. At least a simplified quick flight tutorial is not asked too much. Just to get the bird in the air, for a first success. The IXEG 737 does this very well.

[Guest]

Some of the best "learning" tools I've seen used are the ones that provide a interactive checklist that the user can follow, the user would check the item and the view will pan to the action and show the operation (be it a switch, knob, button, or just visual check).  No need for any "external" training be it video or manual, all self contained in product and the user would just activate a "training" mode and select a session (be it cold and dark start, to taxi, to takeoff, to departure, to cruise, to approach, to shutdown).  The only other product I've seen that tackles this task but on less complex aircraft is FSW ... IMHO, they're on the right track in regards to getting the novice involved.  

There is certainly a disconnect between novice users that I personally believe is bad for this "hobby" (more novice users = more money for developers = more products and better quality products) ... there is an "elitist" mentality around operating "study level" aircraft ... in fact, I really don't like the term "study level" (used by many reviewers) as it suggests a certain level of intelligence requirement which is actually NOT needed with proper training tools. 

Of course, such a training tool requires coding and more development costs ... however, I'm surprised that someone (content provider) hasn't picked up on this and provided "interactive" training tools.  We have "elements" that are close such as products from FS2Crew (on the FSX/P3D side) that operate as a helping hand, but not as an actual training tool.

From technical standpoint, I'm pretty sure both platforms can support such a method of training, it's not terribly difficult to code but does take some time as checklists for the various stages of operation can be extensive.  But they would go a long way removing the stigma around "study level" aircraft and make it more accessible/desirable to everyone from the novice to the experienced.  More accessible = more users = more money = future development = hobby growth/improvement.

My 2 cents, 

Cheers, Rob.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I really don't like the term "study level" (used by many reviewers) as it suggests a certain level of intelligence requirement which is actually NOT needed with proper training tools. 

Actually, studying simply means a certain level of dedication, which doesn't (necessarily) require intelligence. (Etymologically "studium" in latin is also defined as "zeal, dedication"). So I'm fine with the term in general. No doubt some flight simmers do use the term in an elitist manner though. 

[757FO 143]

2 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I've had some time in both FF A320 and FSLabs A320 ... didn't notice much of a difference in Yoke sensitivity ... seemed about the same in both platforms (I'm using a Yoko Yoke).  The only oddity, and probably my biggest complaint, I didn't like in the +/- switch operation in the FF ... becomes a big problem when you're trying to do a lot quickly in those "busy" stages of flight.  Fortunately I'll be mapping all the FF controls to my GoFlight gear via Steve's GIT product so it will become less of an issue, but I would have preferred a better method of manipulating the switches and dials.  

The audio on the FSLabs A320 seems much better with just about every operation emulated ... FF A320 seems to be missing some audio queues and just too quiet.   On the FPS front both are very good with the FF version having the edge but that's hard to compare given the different platforms and graphics options ... i.e. if I turned down some of the options in P3D V4 to match my XP11 settings, then P3D V4 would probably win the FPS race, but since I lock to 30Hz/30 FPS it's not that relevant as both hit 30 FPS with lots of add-ons and weather.

As mentioned the Airbus A320 is relatively simple to fly "normally" compared to 737, 747, 777.   I'm no A320 expert, but I have gone over the various videos/tutorials available and like many have suggested, it has to be the most "automated" aircraft in it's class ... I guess the challenge is when things go wrong ... I'm not there yet.

Don't consider this a review, just some input.  Both are exceptionally good and I would consider the FF A320 the best of the best for commercial aircraft in XP11, yes even better than the IXEG 737 (with 1.21 update).

Cheers, Rob.

Rob , thank you for your feedback here, helped me decide to wait a bit longer as the sound is super important to me. Try failing 2 hydraulic systems and wait to be in direct law after dumping the gear (have a look at blackbox771 tutorials) , you A320 will turn into a C172 in no time :) 

[kneighbour 32]

3 hours ago, MarioDonick said:

There are different types of learners. Some (like myself) prefer reading, others need videos, others need a real human besides them, and so on. At least a simplified quick flight tutorial is not asked too much. Just to get the bird in the air, for a first success. The IXEG 737 does this very well.

I did my first 'real' flight in the A320U last night - this was after weeks of preparation. Weeks watching Blackbox711 videos and reading the Flight Crew Training Manual, and also the excellent training links provided on this forum. I do not think that a tutorial from FF would have been any help at all, even if one was possible. There is SO MUCH you need to know, it is just impractical. It is not like (say) getting in the DHC-6 and flying from A to B. You don't even tune the radios for the ILS.

Flying this plane with no mistakes is extremely difficult. I think it is one of those aircraft that you simply need to put the hours in to get proficient. And this is where the 'study level' bit comes in and is what a lot of us like. It is nothing to do with elitism - I don't know any other flight simmers at all, so there is nothing to be elite about. It is the joy of finally doing a perfect flight, knowing that it has taken you 3 months to get to this point. 

I usually fly Boeings and used to think that the Airbus system was simpler, ie you are just a bus driver. It is certainly more automated, but it is not simpler. I would even go so far as to say it is more complex, but perhaps that is because I am comparing a 738 with an A320. Just taking off is a complex task.

One surprising (and great) discovery was the fly by wire is great. I came in way too high on the approach and in normal circumstances it would have been a go around. But for fun I kept going and still landed perfectly. Very impressive.

[kneighbour 32]

On 2/20/2018 at 1:56 AM, costamesa said:

Still...A tutorial flight would be very very useful for people like me who are coming from P3D just to buy this aircraft.

I found this - it is for FSX, but should have some good info. It includes a tutorial flight.

 

http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/556212/manuals/Airbus_A320321.pdf?t=1513788170

[costamesa 88]

6 hours ago, kneighbour said:

I found this - it is for FSX, but should have some good info. It includes a tutorial flight.

 

http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/556212/manuals/Airbus_A320321.pdf?t=1513788170

Thank you very much. I have FSLabs A320 too, so I more or less know how to operate at least in the basic level. What I meant was a PMDG/FSlabs like tutorial which is very useful even for a first-time FSX/P3D user. A single photo sometimes is explaining more than a paragraph and it saves a lot of time. 

Thanks again.