P3Dv4.2 Good nVidia Inspector Results!

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

30 minutes ago, vhaaland said:

So how do you explain the following?

* Game bar on - frames capped at 30 FPS

* Game bar off - frames capped at 60 FPS.

Only setting changed back and forth, its reproducable, and a difference of 30 frames is not "seeing things".

b )on my system I have FPS unlimited in P3D, and no extrenal limiter and no Nvidia Inspector even installed. I cannot explain why this happens, but my guess is this is something internal in Windows and the relation between WDDM and the Nvidia driver, even on apps not running in full screen mode.

Edit: I have not installed 1803 version yet, so maybe this only happens on 1709 with driver 388.31.

What you're saying here is by turning game bar on and off your frame rate changes. I assume you have 1/2 refresh rate always on when doing that? How about switching 1/2 refresh rate off and trying to switch game bar on and off? Will you have the same result with 30/60 or will you now have 60FPS in both cases?

[vidha 91]

6 minutes ago, 0Artur0 said:

I assume you have 1/2 refresh rate always on when doing that?

Correct, set in NVCP.

6 minutes ago, 0Artur0 said:

How about switching 1/2 refresh rate off and trying to switch game bar on and off? Will you have the same result with 30/60 or will you now have 60FPS in both cases?

In that case, it will have 60 FPS in both cases, meaning the Nvidia driver and WDDm is related somehow. Also meaning the Nvidia driver seems to be able to impact Windows own default vsync when playing borderless games.

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

1 hour ago, vhaaland said:

Correct, set in NVCP.

In that case, it will have 60 FPS in both cases, meaning the Nvidia driver and WDDm is related somehow. Also meaning the Nvidia driver seems to be able to impact Windows own default vsync when playing borderless games.

Well, there you have it! 1/2 refresh rate doesn't work, what's impacting your frame rate is Game bar which apparently limits your frames to 30FPS so it acts like an external frame limiter. Since some report less stutters when using external frame limiter you're probably seeing that. What do you think?

Edited August 17, 2018 by 0Artur0

[vidha 91]

16 minutes ago, 0Artur0 said:

Well, there you have it! 1/2 refresh rate doesn't work, what's impacting your frame rate is Game bar which apparently limits your frames to 30FPS so it acts like an external frame limiter.

Yes, Game Bar probably limits the FPS by forcing VSYNC 30HZ when NVCP is set to Adaptive Vsync 1/2.  Adaptive vsync "works" when Game Bar is set "On". Thats the result many with 60HZ monitor wants isn't it. It's really more smooth than anything I've ever seen on my system, but lags when panning fast-

It cannot be compared to 60HZ sync which is more fluid if you can maintain that FPS. Sadly my FPS normally is around 40-50 in complex areas, and then this 30HZ locked sync is really fluid compared to occational stuttering which you would get without it.

Edited August 17, 2018 by vhaaland

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

3 minutes ago, vhaaland said:

Yes, Game Bar probably limits the FPS by forcing VSYNC 30HZ when NVCP is set to Adaptive Vsync 1/2.

No, man, game bar is just a simple external frame limiter (like the one in nvidia inspector or dxtory or many others) that limits frames to 30FPS and not forcing any vsync.

[vidha 91]

58 minutes ago, 0Artur0 said:

No, man, game bar is just a simple external frame limiter (like the one in nvidia inspector or dxtory or many others) that limits frames to 30FPS and not forcing any vsync.

I'm no technician. Just interested in finding out what happens behind the scenes.

However, everything I have read about WDDM and Windows 10, with full screen optimizations active, is that Windows forces VSYNC on in all borderless games, normally at 60 HZ. That's why many choose to disable this, because of choppiness and lag. Why would could it not be conceivable that it enforces 30HZ vsync under certain circumstances, as when Nvidia Adaptive sync is set to 1/2 refresh rate? BTW, do you have a source that says Windows Game Bar is a FPS limiter, and where to set the limit?

Edited August 17, 2018 by vhaaland

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

15 minutes ago, vhaaland said:

I'm not gonna argue, as I'm no technician. Just interested in finding out what happens behind the scenes.

However, everything I have read about WDDM and Windows 10, with full screen optimizations active, is that Windows forces VSYNC on in all borderless games, normally at 60 HZ. That's why many choose to disable this, because of choppiness and lag. Why would could it not be conceivable that it enforces 30HZ vsync under certain circumstances, as when Nvidia Adaptive sync is set to 1/2 refresh rate? BTW, do you have a source that says Windows Game Bar is a FPS limiter, and where to set the limit?

Don't get me wrong, I'd be very happy if your claims were true! Very happy!

I re-read you previous comment and just realized you said that if you turn 1/2 refresh rate off, than when you switch Game bar on/ff you have 60FPS in both cases? With 1/2 refresh rate on you have 30FPS when you turn Game bar on and 60 if you turn it off? OK, I'll try when I come home in a few hours. If that would really work I'm astonished nobody found this out before.

Maybe someone who's "more in the know" could explain this more accurately.

Edited August 17, 2018 by 0Artur0

[vidha 91]

15 minutes ago, 0Artur0 said:

I'll try when I come home in a few hours

It would be interesting to hear how that works out. BTW I also have triple buffering and vsync enabled in P3D, and of course FPS unlimited.

 

15 minutes ago, 0Artur0 said:

Maybe someone who's "more in the know" could explain this more accurately.

That's what I'm thinking too :)

Edit: If your on the april 1803, you should note this (I've not tested this on 1803). Seems like there is no longer a "Full screen optimizations" switch under Game bar "on" /"off" in the user settings in 1803, but this is explained here:
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/104080-enable-disable-fullscreen-optimizations-windows-10-a.html

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by vhaaland

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

6 hours ago, vhaaland said:

It would be interesting to hear how that works out.

So, I tried it, there's absolutely no change in FPS when I select 1/2 refresh rate in NI and turn Game mode on/off. It's 60FPS in both cases, doesn't go down to 30 when I turn Game mode on.

 

6 hours ago, vhaaland said:

Edit: If your on the april 1803, you should note this (I've not tested this on 1803). Seems like there is no longer a "Full screen optimizations" switch under Game bar "on" /"off" in the user settings in 1803, but this is explained here:
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/104080-enable-disable-fullscreen-optimizations-windows-10-a.html

 

Now fullscreen optimization is ON by default. You have to turn it off if you want but I assume we want it on.

[Jim Young 2,356]

16 hours ago, B777ER said:

Jim - So you don't check the wide-aspect view box in the P3D UI I presume. I am curious how this would work on my 55" 4k TV? I use a zoom factor of .80 with wide-view aspect ratio checked along with Track IR. I only have a i7 6700k but with a 1080Ti. What zoom level do you use normally? 

I would recommend .70 but the setting really is at what looks best for you. 

[vidha 91]

1 hour ago, 0Artur0 said:

So, I tried it, there's absolutely no change in FPS when I select 1/2 refresh rate in NI and turn Game mode on/off. It's 60FPS in both cases, doesn't go down to 30 when I turn Game mode on.

I really dont know why there is different behaviour. Many variables at play here, I guess. Maybe there is a difference with WIndows 10 versions, or the driver. I'm still on 1709 with driver 388.31 (from nov 2017). Other than this, I have no other settings I can think of which should be different. I also clean installed driver with DDU, but don't know if that would cause this.

Edit: If you are on 1803, it seems the full screen optimizations i "on" by default. As I am still on 1709 I guss this option is off. What if you leave Game Mode On, and turn off full screen optimizations?

Edited August 17, 2018 by vhaaland

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

24 minutes ago, vhaaland said:

I really dont know why there is different behaviour. Many variables at play here, I guess. Maybe there is a difference with WIndows 10 versions, or the driver. I'm still on 1709 with driver 388.31 (from nov 2017). Other than this, I have no other settings I can think of which should be different. I also clean installed driver with DDU, but don't know if that would cause this.

Edit: If you are on 1803, it seems the full screen optimizations i "on" by default. As I am still on 1709 I guss this option is off. What if you leave Game Mode On, and turn off full screen optimizations?

I disabled full screen optimizations. Same result. 60 FPS no matter what.

Look, you're the only one reporting such behavior, so.... I doubt it's down to Windows version or drivers. It's such huge thing that it would be all over these forums if 1/2 refresh rate would actually work. There's probably something else going on on your machine that has nothing to do with 1/2 refresh rate vsync. Can you maybe make a video (with phone or one of the free screen capturing programs) of your FPS in P3D via SHIFT+Z and turning Game mode on/off? I'd really like to see that effect of Game mode.

[vidha 91]

57 minutes ago, 0Artur0 said:

Look, you're the only one reporting such behavior

I have reported the behaviour, and it was a tip hoping it would help others.If it's only me who can get this behaviour, I doubt a video would change that.

I think we need to wait to see if anyone else chimes in, if not, I will at least be able to enjoy this on my setup. 

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

14 hours ago, vhaaland said:

I have reported the behaviour, and it was a tip hoping it would help others.If it's only me who can get this behaviour, I doubt a video would change that.

I think we need to wait to see if anyone else chimes in, if not, I will at least be able to enjoy this on my setup. 

I kinda expected that 😉

Well, if it's only on your end, than it has definitely nothing to do with 1/2 refresh rate and there must be something else going on.