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PMDG and X-PLANE

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Guest Mik75
5 hours ago, rsrandazzo said:

Gents,

For those who insist upon proselytizing for their favorite sim:  Always remember to insert the phrase "in my opinion" in such discussions.  One of my pet peeves is how many people in the world today cannot discriminate between a statement of fact and an opinion.

Blue is a color  <- statement of fact.

Blue is the best color <- opinion.

Blue is light years ahead of red!  <- opinion

No, they appear that way because they are moving in different directions relative to one another. <- fact

(see what I did there?  Nerd moment.  sorry.)

 

 

The whole perception is very subjective. Actually, everything is build upon experience, education, and things like belief and religion have a major impact on our „reality“, etc. Blue might look completely different for a color blind -> that’s a fact! :-)

We‘re sitting on chairs in front of desks, pretending to fly, so reality and facts don’t seem to be the most important factors for us flight simmers in the first place, anyways? ;-) -> that’s my opinion! ;-)

It’s all about getting immersed, in some way or another, and everyone has different ways to get there, that‘s a fact, probably...

Ok, so what’s my point here? Well, everything is based on experience and opinion. And in the best case, my opinion can convince some fellow simmers to give XP a try, or at least, make you curios. It’s a very powerful platform! 

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1 hour ago, Mik75 said:

The whole perception is very subjective. Actually, everything is build upon experience, education, and things like belief and religion have a major impact on our „reality“, etc. Blue might look completely different for a color blind -> that’s a fact! :-)

We‘re sitting on chairs in front of desks, pretending to fly, so reality and facts don’t seem to be the most important factors for us flight simmers in the first place, anyways? ;-) -> that’s my opinion! ;-)

It’s all about getting immersed, in some way or another, and everyone has different ways to get there, that‘s a fact, probably...

Ok, so what’s my point here? Well, everything is based on experience and opinion. And in the best case, my opinion can convince some fellow simmers to give XP a try, or at least, make you curios. It’s a very powerful platform! 

Uhm... that still doesn't change the concept, that one should avoid stating one opinion as fact. As far as I've experienced, many people forget or neglect this guideline.

Robert's example (which you referred to) is quite clear on the matter.


Best regards,
--Anders Bermann--
____________________
Scandinavian VA

Pilot-ID: SAS2471

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I have given XP 10 and 11 a try and both times I liked it for its default scenery and night lighting. But there were several things that really destroyed the fun... I have to say that while I have addons of course for P3D (FSX is far off the equation, I only compare it to P3Dv4) I didn‘t add anything to XP so there might be a lot of space to improve it.

But this click and drag thing to dial knobs is absolutely unpractical for me. I don‘t understand why a simulator, that is claimed to be that highly realistic, uses a major control like the mouse wheel for zooming. Can I zoom with my eyes or what? Adjustable eye measurement? I fly with a zoom level that is practical for the VC which is between 0.8 and 1.0. Point one.

point two is that while P3D is easy to modify and tweak in the cfg my experience with XP was that I could‘t get rid of the stutters (on MY pc). 

Then I use a yoke for airplanes with a yoke and a joystick for airplanes with a (side)stick. While there is FSUIPC for P3D I haven‘t found something comparable for XP.. have I missed it? 

Then a thing that Scott Gentile from A2A has said is holding me off. FSX/P3D is an open platform that easily let‘s you sidepass its physics which is important if you want to get good flight characteristics. Accusim would not be possible with XP. And I think it is similar with the DC6 or PMDG in general. The flight physics in XP aren‘t much better than in P3D, they just feel different and spongier which leads to the assumption they were realistic. If I compare their cessna to the obe I used to fly... nope! Not better than default P3D/FSX.

 

a lot of this of course is very subjective too but I can‘t accept that XP was light years ahead. It‘s different. That‘s all. Ecerything else is personal preference.

 

esit: and the menus are terrible. :P

  • Upvote 2

,

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31 minutes ago, Ephedrin said:

esit: and the menus are terrible. :P

... and that settles it! :laugh:

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Best regards,
--Anders Bermann--
____________________
Scandinavian VA

Pilot-ID: SAS2471

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Guest Mik75

There are so many addons that use the mouse wheel for actuating knobs in the VC, some let you even choose how the mouse wheel is being used. The ground physics alone are obviously more advanced. Taxi your aircraft (do it with different loads), break, drive it onto unstable surfaces, bring it to a complete stop, watch the aircraft, watch its suspension. Look at the fps while doing that. Or, save your (selfmade) scenery on an external harddrive, or on two different drives, just alias it into the scenery library. Or drag and drop your whole XP parent folder into any place or disk on your machine. Or, the possibility to assign controls differently per aircraft, without the need of additional apps. Or the advanced and very powerful camera system, build into the sim. Or, run the auto updater to simply check and update your XP installation with one click. Or do the same with more and more high end aircraft addons. Or change parameters of aircraft (to your liking) in the planemaker. Or adjust skycolors to your liking through a menu in the sim. Or let the sim show you the physics that calculate the flight model on the fly, or create your own flight model in an application. Or get an amazing look, hundreds of sceneries and aircraft for the cost of nothing. Or see how lights truly light up everything dynamically, inside your aircraft, and in the world surrounding you. Or how the flashing strobe lights light up your surrounding in clouds. Or how fog fills the valleys in the mountains. Or the sensation of speed you get, when you pass through clouds and finally break into the blue. Or how you can directly access controls, that let you change settings concerning the scattering, atmospheric effects, etc. (basically everything that puts out and uses „dataref“ figures). Or how ice builds up on your aircraft when flying through icing conditions, until the point that the lift gets destroyed. Or the sheer amount of autogen that gets drawn, without a dramatic loss in fps. Or, that you can create high(est) resolution photo scenery for the most areas you wish, and use them in your sim. Or... Ok, these are some pretty obvious differences, on which my opinion is build that XP11 is well ahead of its competitors. Your mileage may vary. 

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Guest Mik75
4 hours ago, Anders Bermann said:

Uhm... that still doesn't change the concept, that one should avoid stating one opinion as fact. As far as I've experienced, many people forget or neglect this guideline.

Robert's example (which you referred to) is quite clear on the matter.

Well, then you didn’t get my point here. XP‘s technological advantage is a fact, what one prefers, is based on personal taste and opinion. I could have been clearer, but then again, I don‘t want to start an argument. I don’t get this whole comparison and „my car is faster than yours“ thing anyways. Why are people so eager and serious when it comes to our hobby? I’m out, back to „flying“... ;-)

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This really sounds great. Let‘s see what the few top developers are going to do in the future.. and how XP develops in matters of the rather downrating things (for me) LIKE the seasonal capabilities, the user interface, the control assignments, AI..  I admit the IXEG 737 looks amazing and I will for sure watch the YT vids of the upcoming MD11.. if it really is that good then developers will likely go for XP too.


,

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You know, gents, sometimes I like to fire up the old 360 to play some good old Ace Combat.

The physics are garbage, the planes carry way more than they are capable of carrying in the real world, there's guaranteed to be a mission where you have to fly low to the ground for some weird/forced reason, the planes are occasionally incredibly fake (but damn, that one with the scissor wings is fun to fly and just wreck everything - airborne or on the ground), and the plotlines are like daytime TV dramas.

...but damn go I enjoy going ham, firing ALL OF THE MISSILES, and just blowing EVERYTHING UP. Why? Reasons probably related to being male. The sim itself? Absolute garbage...but god damn does it look good, and it's a half decent way to blow off steam without investing much effort.

Oh...and I like FSX, too...and P3D a lot more, too...and X-Plane sometimes, too.

...and sometimes I play that garbage Need for Speed Horizons thing, and then I'll flip right into Project Cars (if you haven't tried it in VR, you should).

...and I like to occasionally drink Coke, and sometimes even Pepsi. Hell, sometimes I might even drink Dr.Pepper, too.

 

 

Ain't nobody giving you points for swearing allegiance to things, especially with the sims here.

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Kyle Rodgers

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Personally, I don`t swear allegiance to any sim. I have them all and use them all. Nevertheless, the heavy and old heritage from Flight Simulator legacy code is still pretty evident to me. Yesterday I was doing a flight with a new released jet for P3Dv4 and, while its systems simulations were pretty good, looking outside really made me feel I was still in 2002.

If you open the Demo Area of XP11, fly through the new Caucasus Map in DCS 2.5, or even go for a spin on Aerofly FS2, chances are good that you will be blown away almost instantly. Unfortunately the base P3D simulator just does not have this wow factor like other platforms do. The tired FS engine, while having received a nice 64bit make-up, might be a significant  liability for the platform going forward, especially when we are talking about the younger crowd coming into this hobby.

My opinion, not a fact.


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PC2: AMD Ryzen 7700X | PowerColor Radeon RX 6800 XT Red Dragon | MSI MPG B650I EDGE  ITX | G.SKILL Flare Expo X5 32GB DDR5 PC 6000 CL32 | 2TB NVMe  | Cooler Master Hyper | Lian Li 750W SFX Gold | Lian Li TU150 | SAMSUNG Odyssey G9 49"

GoFlight GF-PRO NG 737 Yoke System - Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog - Honeycomb Bravo Throttle - MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals - TrackIR - Stream Deck XL + Stream Deck Plus
 

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1 hour ago, GCBraun said:

Personally, I don`t swear allegiance to any sim. I have them all and use them all. Nevertheless, the heavy and old heritage from Flight Simulator legacy code is still pretty evident to me. Yesterday I was doing a flight with a new released jet for P3Dv4 and, while its systems simulations were pretty good, looking outside really made me feel I was still in 2002.

If you open the Demo Area of XP11, fly through the new Caucasus Map in DCS 2.5, or even go for a spin on Aerofly FS2, chances are good that you will be blown away almost instantly. Unfortunately the base P3D simulator just does not have this wow factor like other platforms do. The tired FS engine, while having received a nice 64bit make-up, might be a significant  liability for the platform going forward, especially when we are talking about the younger crowd coming into this hobby.

My opinion, not a fact.

You know I love eye candy.  For real have a 1080 just for eye candy but still i like my P3D why?

Realism. I prefer a nicely coded and functioning sim better than one good looking. //No offense against the other

Still the Xplane 10 Demo, if worng correct me pls, in Seattle was good but actually not as good as I thought for a 2016/17 Sim.

Is the engine dated? Yup. Impossible to upgrade? No. 

My 2 cents.


Cheers Henrik K.

IT Student, future ATPL holder, Freight forwarder air cargo and thx to COVID no longer a Ramp Agent at EDDL/DUS+ | FS2Crew Beta tester (&Voice Actor) for the FSlabs and UGCX

Sim: Prepar3d V4.5 Rig: CPU R7-5800X | RAM: 32GB DDR4-3000 | GPU: GTX 3080 | TFT: DELL 3840x1600

ugcx_beta_team.png 3ePa8Yp.png

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15 minutes ago, 30K said:

You know I love eye candy.  For real have a 1080 just for eye candy but still i like my P3D why?

Realism. I prefer a nicely coded and functioning sim better than one good looking. //No offense against the other

Still the Xplane 10 Demo, if worng correct me pls, in Seattle was good but actually not as good as I thought for a 2016/17 Sim.

Is the engine dated? Yup. Impossible to upgrade? No. 

My 2 cents.

I also value realism. That is why I barely use Aerofly FS2. While P3D may have the best large aircraft add-ons, hard to say that the training-level fighter jets in DCS, like the A10C and the Mirage 2000, or some top GA addon in XP11 (and even a couple heavies) are not realistic. 

In any case, I did not say I don’t like P3D. I do and still use it more often than the other sims perhaps.  

  • Upvote 1

PC1: AMD Ryzen 7800X3D | Zotac RTX 4090 Trinity | Asus TUF X670E-Plus | G.SKILL Trident Z5 NEO 32GB DDR5 PC 6000 CL30 | 4TB NVMe  | Noctua NH-D15 | Asus TUF 1000W Gold | be quiet! Pure Base 500DX | Noctua NH-D15S | LG OLED CX 48"

PC2: AMD Ryzen 7700X | PowerColor Radeon RX 6800 XT Red Dragon | MSI MPG B650I EDGE  ITX | G.SKILL Flare Expo X5 32GB DDR5 PC 6000 CL32 | 2TB NVMe  | Cooler Master Hyper | Lian Li 750W SFX Gold | Lian Li TU150 | SAMSUNG Odyssey G9 49"

GoFlight GF-PRO NG 737 Yoke System - Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog - Honeycomb Bravo Throttle - MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals - TrackIR - Stream Deck XL + Stream Deck Plus
 

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5 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

and sometimes even Pepsi

you aren't afraid of anything...


,

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Hi, X-Planer here :D

I feel this is going to devolute into another 'my sim is better than yours thread,' which isn't the goal of this thread (or any other similar thread that gets created.) I may have my opnions about P3D, but I do respect its 10+ years of commitment from third-parties.

To PMDG... my position is adamant that I respect their buisness decisions. But, a friendly reminder that contrary to any opnions or data, there is a community here ready to support any advancements made into the platform. I think objectively, it is a sim with so much untapped potential that the company really is misisng out from. Developers are getting more creative, Laminar are being more responsive, and the community is thirsty (even just taking a walk along your Facebook comments :biggrin:)

Here is hoping to a prosperous future for all major platforms!

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Michael,

Ah!  See?  I have a significant amount of experience flying various kinds of airplanes in various kinds of ice.  I find the same effects in XPL to be completely unrealistic, **based upon my own experience and expectations.**

Doesn't mean one of us is right- just means we have different opinions on it.

But blue is still the best color, no matter how you approach it.  <-- see what I did there?  More Nerd Stuff.  LOL

 

 

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Robert S. Randazzo coolcap.gif

PLEASE NOTE THAT PMDG HAS DEPARTED AVSIM

You can find us at:  http://forum.pmdg.com

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I am sure both platforms have tons of unrealistic effects. They are simulators after all. Nevertheless, it is still impressive that even default planes in XP11 will react to the world around you and actually punish you for your mistakes. Just see what happens when you fly the default XP11 C172 in icing conditions. It may not be 100% realistic, but I am sure you would not be flying in those conditions in the real world.

  • Upvote 1

PC1: AMD Ryzen 7800X3D | Zotac RTX 4090 Trinity | Asus TUF X670E-Plus | G.SKILL Trident Z5 NEO 32GB DDR5 PC 6000 CL30 | 4TB NVMe  | Noctua NH-D15 | Asus TUF 1000W Gold | be quiet! Pure Base 500DX | Noctua NH-D15S | LG OLED CX 48"

PC2: AMD Ryzen 7700X | PowerColor Radeon RX 6800 XT Red Dragon | MSI MPG B650I EDGE  ITX | G.SKILL Flare Expo X5 32GB DDR5 PC 6000 CL32 | 2TB NVMe  | Cooler Master Hyper | Lian Li 750W SFX Gold | Lian Li TU150 | SAMSUNG Odyssey G9 49"

GoFlight GF-PRO NG 737 Yoke System - Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog - Honeycomb Bravo Throttle - MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals - TrackIR - Stream Deck XL + Stream Deck Plus
 

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