Localizer capture

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

13 minutes ago, Wink207 said:

 

Please take a look at the ticket. There is a screen grab included. Perhaps you can find something wrong with my lineup but it is obvious that the aircraft did not capture the localizer.

Be happy to, but if you can upload it to the link below, and then provide a link here it would be faster.  If not, that's okay.

FREE IMAGE HOSTING:  https://ctrlq.org/images/

 

[Wink207 78]

42 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

Be happy to, but if you can upload it to the link below, and then provide a link here it would be faster.  If not, that's okay.

FREE IMAGE HOSTING:  https://ctrlq.org/images/

 

I think I did it, but not sure :) Wow...looks like I did!!!

[Wink207 78]

Just now, Wink207 said:

I think I did it, but not sure :) Wow...looks like I did!!!

Notice she's turning away from the localizer. Just keeps turning away.

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

15 minutes ago, Wink207 said:

Notice she's turning away from the localizer. Just keeps turning away.

Ah, I see the problem.  Check your frequency and course.

2 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

AIRAC 1802, ILS Info Runway 33L 110.7/330 degrees.

Best wishes.

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by DaveCT2003

[Wink207 78]

19 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

Ah, I see the problem.  Check your frequency and course.

Best wishes.

 

Dave:

As you can see on the pic, I was shooting 18C on that approach. FSX map function, LittleMap both say that freq is 111.30. Also the MADDOG FMS says 111.30 as well..........

BTW, I just shot RW11 at PWM. Same behavior. You line up a narrow intercept angle and she just doesn't turn......IMC too...but the aircraft is so well mannered in hand flying landing is pretty easy...

Edited February 25, 2018 by Wink207

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

1 minute ago, Wink207 said:

Dave:

As you can see on the pic, I was shooting 18C on that approach. FSX map function, LittleMap both say that freq is 111.30. Also the MADDOG FMS says 111.30 as well..........

When did you change airports and approaches in this discussion?  You never mentioned that, unless I missed it.  We've been talking KBOS 33L, correct?  Also, you have the PERF INIT page up (not sure why), so I couldn't see which airports you have in the flight plan. Moreover, I deal with a lot of people who all have different levels of knowledge and I have to try and figure that out when dealing with each one - and I didn't know if somehow you thought that the FMS would automatically enter the freq and course for you as it does on some aircraft. Lots of unknowns and the list is growing not getting shorter.

From my perspective, and thinking you were still 33L at KBOS, regardless of the course you were on because you said the aircraft was turning. 

I might be an experienced pilot and 30+ year veteran flight simmer, but I'm sorry, I can't read minds (not yet... lol).

I've shot countless approaches in the Maddog at airports all over the US and Europe (at least 50 different airports and different approaches at those airports) and never once failed to have an issue. 

If reinstalling and updating the AIRAC doesn't work for you, I'd wait for someone to get back to you on the ticket.

 

 

[Wink207 78]

26 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

When did you change airports and approaches in this discussion?  You never mentioned that, unless I missed it.  We've been talking KBOS 33L, correct?  Also, you have the PERF INIT page up (not sure why), so I couldn't see which airports you have in the flight plan. Moreover, I deal with a lot of people who all have different levels of knowledge and I have to try and figure that out when dealing with each one - and I didn't know if somehow you thought that the FMS would automatically enter the freq and course for you as it does on some aircraft. Lots of unknowns and the list is growing not getting shorter.

From my perspective, and thinking you were still 33L at KBOS, regardless of the course you were on because you said the aircraft was turning. 

I might be an experienced pilot and 30+ year veteran flight simmer, but I'm sorry, I can't read minds (not yet... lol).

I've shot countless approaches in the Maddog at airports all over the US and Europe (at least 50 different airports and different approaches at those airports) and never once failed to have an issue. 

If reinstalling and updating the AIRAC doesn't work for you, I'd wait for someone to get back to you on the ticket.

 

 

Yes, mea culpa. The ticket screen grab is at CLT 18C. I did not make that clear and I apologize. OK, let the ticket work it magic. But it's worth noting that if FSX has a freq for an approach I hope that if that freq is dialed in to the NAV1 receiver, then the MADDOG will fly that approach frequency regardless of the AIRAC. Remember that most FSX installs haven't been updated since 2006 or so.

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

1 minute ago, Wink207 said:

Yes, mea culpa. The ticket screen grab is at CLT 18C. I did not make that clear and I apologize. OK, let the ticket work it magic. But it's worth noting that if FSX has a freq for an approach I hope that if that freq is dialed in to the NAV1 receiver, then the MADDOG will fly that approach frequency regardless of the AIRAC. Remember that most FSX installs haven't been updated since 2006 or so.

True enough my friend.  I haven't got the new Boston scenery yet, I've been using the AFCAD updates found here on AVSIM and they have everything updated for us.

Best wishes.

 

 

[GSproson 11]

30 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

Why does course matter, it's an ils.....it shouldn't matter. You could spin the hai all you want because there is only one course to intercept.

Ahsmatt7, check the video below. But for a quick and dirty explanation, we need a defined course for the LOC section of the ILS approach. An ILS works in two separate parts. Localiser (LOC - the course to the runway) which gives us lateral guidance towards the runway (now bear in mind we may also have an offset LOC due to terrain but that's another discussion) and the Glide Path which gives us the vertical guidance. The reason a course matters on a precision approach is that it is there to get us to the centerline of the designated runway. If we are in CAT III conditions and are planning on landing on ILS 33L which has a magnetic course of 334 degrees, we wouldn't want to fly an inbound course of (as an example) 176 degrees (which we actually couldn't as ILS signals tend to dissipate quickly as you get further away from the centerline.

Now in the MD80, the pilot needs to dial this inbound course manually in order to fly the ILS.

 

 

[uhntissbaby111 58]

But as Ahsmatt stated, course shouldn't matter on an ILS. A LOC only has one course, unlike a VOR. One side is 90hz and the other is 150hz. And that's how it determines your position. If the LOC course is 360, you could have 090 tuned into the HSI and you would still get correct indications, your situational awareness will be made a little more difficult, but it would still show proper deviations 

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

It's procedure.

 

[uhntissbaby111 58]

5 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

It's procedure.

 

Right, and I fully agree with that. Just stating that you technically don't need to dial in the correct course for a ILS. And actually, during a BC LOC approach it's beneficial to use the opposite of the approach course if using an HSI, otherwise you'll get reverse sensing 

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

2 minutes ago, uhntissbaby111 said:

Right, and I fully agree with that. Just stating that you technically don't need to dial in the correct course for a ILS. And actually, during a BC LOC approach it's beneficial to use the opposite of the approach course if using an HSI, otherwise you'll get reverse sensing 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure (or hope) that most people know this, so I was confused why this took us off the topic is all.

Best wishes to everyone.

 

 

[SAS443 1,716]

In general, many posters above are totally correct, LOC only transmits one course so you can't really capture any other course. Spin the OBS card any way you want...

BUT

I'm surprised no Beta tester has actually mentioned the very specific traits of the MD80 autoflight LOC CAP/TRK logic. BOLDED letters emphasized.

"If correct ILS/LOC inbound course has not been set, and a large
discrepancy exists between the actual LOC inbound course and the
selected course, the flight guidance system will not attempt to
complete the course intercept; the airplane will fly through the
localizer, wings level. In that case, LOC CAP may be annunciated and
G/S TRK could occur, causing the airplane to begin to descend.
Upon failing to attain LOC TRK and after exiting the localizer beam,
the autopilot will disconnect and flight guidance will revert to HDG
HLD/ VERT SPD"

SAS recommends "For autoland, ILS or LOC approaches, ensure that the CRS is set to the correct inbound localizer course (+/- 3°)."
During ALIGN (ALN) mode the heading is aligned to the value set in the course selector, so they need to be very similar values.

Edited February 26, 2018 by SAS443

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

On 2/26/2018 at 2:56 AM, SAS443 said:

In general, many posters above are totally correct, LOC only transmits one course so you can't really capture any other course. Spin the OBS card any way you want...

BUT

I'm surprised no Beta tester has actually mentioned the very specific traits of the MD80 autoflight LOC CAP/TRK logic. BOLDED letters emphasized.

"If correct ILS/LOC inbound course has not been set, and a large
discrepancy exists between the actual LOC inbound course and the
selected course, the flight guidance system will not attempt to
complete the course intercept; the airplane will fly through the
localizer, wings level. In that case, LOC CAP may be annunciated and
G/S TRK could occur, causing the airplane to begin to descend.
Upon failing to attain LOC TRK and after exiting the localizer beam,
the autopilot will disconnect and flight guidance will revert to HDG
HLD/ VERT SPD"

SAS recommends "For autoland, ILS or LOC approaches, ensure that the CRS is set to the correct inbound localizer course (+/- 3°)."
During ALIGN (ALN) mode the heading is aligned to the value set in the course selector, so they need to be very similar values.

I'll have to double check (I'm not at home at the moment), but from what I recall what you wrote applies just to AUTOLAND, doesn't it?  I'm pretty sure that's what my documentation says.  I could easily be wrong, but I don't recall that applying to ILS.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2018 by DaveCT2003