Pilot aggression

[Stefan888 11]

Hi guys

I flew on a 737 yesterday in a cockpit.I've noticed that pilots are pushing thoose button's rather aggressively as well thoose on the overhead.Is there reason for this?Are Boeings switches so robust that they need do to so.I didn't asked them maybe i could offend them.Maybe someone who flew on real or simulator Boeing plane can answer. 

                                                                                           Cheers,

                                                                                       Stefan Djordjevic

[Pablo Vazquez 36]

I am an American Airlines flight attendant and sit in the flight deck often when we are ferrying an airplane. Usually on the baby buses. I don’t have an answer for you but I can ask next time I work on the 738. Just one question, I noticed that it says under your name that you are a 737 maintenance technician, shouldn’t you know the answer if you are?

[Captain Kevin 586]

34 minutes ago, Pablo Vazquez said:

Just one question, I noticed that it says under your name that you are a 737 maintenance technician, shouldn’t you know the answer if you are?

Not sure how often maintenance is pushing buttons, and I guess it also depends on what exactly he does in the first place. If, for instance (and I don't know him, so I don't know what he does, but I'm just using this as an example), he works only on the engines, he likely wouldn't know much about the buttons.

[Stefan888 11]

Thank you very much for your answer mate.Yes I do work as a technician but im restricted to structural repairs and engine. I do not work or get near cockpit 99% percent of the time also I work on 737-200 and classics which my airline uses.But the flight was on NG.Pilots weren't from my airline.I know on classic you have to push thing or two with harder(the planes are sometimes older than me)  but since you work on /800 I'll be more than thankfull for asking your fellow pilots.Cheers

[BlueStar 323]

2 hours ago, Stefanruss said:

noticed that pilots are pushing thoose button's rather aggressively

Don't confuse speed with aggressiveness.  There is  a certain flow to Boeing cockpits and the pilot's can go through the checklist in a hurry.   

[Bob_Z 30]

I am not a professional airline pilot, just with a lowly commercial ticket and now without a medical.  During all of my training from my first lessons as a complete newbie, I was always told to push any button firmly to make sure it was pushed and just not touched.  I would hazard a guess as to that was exactly what those pilots were doing.

[Copper. 78]

Depending on the CDU age, buttons can be pretty stiff and usually it stays that way for a very long time, you can hear a damp rubber click sound as buttons are pressed/depressed. The switches (non rotary) are of durable construct and on the ng, have to be pulled out of their position then moved to desired state. When the switch reaches near its desired state, the switch is released and the spring loaded switch stem snaps into its position.

The buttons and switches are designed to work 100% time 24/7 for a very long length of time in a number of environmental conditions so they are very robust and need positive action to actuate.

The switches and buttons in the cockpit operate very differently to most things available to the general public. I find it difficult to compare it to anything.

[swood721 28]

5 hours ago, Bluestar said:

Don't confuse speed with aggressiveness.  There is  a certain flow to Boeing cockpits and the pilot's can go through the checklist in a hurry.   

Exactly my thoughts. I fly the 757/767 so we have the Korry switches. Things can get “aggressive” in the speed flows are completed, but by no means do we treat our aircraft poorly. Plus, as freight pilots, we at my airline are used to old and worn out (but still terrific) equipment and it occasionally takes a little more coaxing to get things to do what we need.

[Stefan888 11]

Quote

 

Thanks for answers. 

The plane I flown was 2016 737NG so when I saw how pilot's push those switches and buttons I thought that they are treating the aircraft poorly.I thought they are giving damage especialy on speed, heading and v/s wheels on MCP.Looks like new planes are even more robust than the older ones.

[skelsey 765]

As others have said above, having had the opportunity to fly sims built with real parts there is absolutely no comparison between real switches and even very high-end replica sim parts. The latter may look the part but they are terribly flimsy to operate with no 'feel' at all whereas the real things are perhaps best described as 'solid' rather than 'stiff'.

There is a reason Boeing charge circa $700 for a single pushbutton style overhead panel switch: those things are built to last! 

[berts 97]

On 3/2/2018 at 10:51 PM, Bluestar said:

Don't confuse speed with aggressiveness.  There is  a certain flow to Boeing cockpits and the pilot's can go through the checklist in a hurry.   

I suggest there is no place on the modern Flight Deck for aggression of any sort, simply because the most important aspect of flying any aircraft is Flight Safety!

By the time a professional airline pilot is qualified on type they will already be very familiar with all of the normal and emergency procedures laid down by the manufacturer and airline company and this includes how to operate every button and switch correctly.  Checklists and switch actions are never rushed, even if it might look that way to a casual observer.  The vast majority of crew actions will involve pushing or operating the switches and buttons in a positive manner; especially those that latch on and off.  Routine actions will often be performed from memory and these actions will either be monitored by the other crew member or checked again soon afterwards when the appropriate checklist is read out.

Bertie Goddard       

[BlueStar 323]

4 hours ago, berts said:

I suggest there is no place on the modern Flight Deck for aggression of any sort, simply because the most important aspect of flying any aircraft is Flight Safety!

Bertie,

I haven't decided if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me? 

 

[Qavion2 39]

As a former avionics engineer, and having repaired many switches and buttons on Boeings, I certainly wouldn't encourage ham-fisted operators to maul the switches. I've seen frightening videos of pilots operating the spring loaded landing gear levers and heard the levers slamming back into the instrument panel. Whilst the levers themselves are built for a certain amount of abuse, the microswitches in those assemblies are probably a little more sensitive.

Having said this, the tungsten filaments in the switchlamps tend to get pretty hot. Sometimes unbearably so. You don't want to leave your fingers on them for too long. If the pilots seem to jab at them quickly, perhaps this is one reason why they do so. Note that heat has a tendency to weaken the plastic parts in switches, so they do need to be treated with some care.

Wear and tear takes a toll on switches, no matter how expensive they are. Price is not always a guarantee of rubustness. Aircraft parts will always come at a premium.

[JRBarrett 3,038]

44 minutes ago, Qavion2 said:

As a former avionics engineer, and having repaired many switches and buttons on Boeings, I certainly wouldn't encourage ham-fisted operators to maul the switches. I've seen frightening videos of pilots operating the spring loaded landing gear levers and heard the levers slamming back into the instrument panel. Whilst the levers themselves are built for a certain amount of abuse, the microswitches in those assemblies are probably a little more sensitive.

Having said this, the tungsten filaments in the switchlamps tend to get pretty hot. Sometimes unbearably so. You don't want to leave your fingers on them for too long. If the pilots seem to jab at them quickly, perhaps this is one reason why they do so. Note that heat has a tendency to weaken the plastic parts in switches, so they do need to be treated with some care.

Wear and tear takes a toll on switches, no matter how expensive they are. Price is not always a guarantee of rubustness. Aircraft parts will always come at a premium.

Also, jabbing at the push buttons too aggressively tends to prematurely break the filaments on the tiny lamps contained in the switch capsules. (OL-6839 or similar, typically 4 per switch.) Replacing the lamps is somewhat tedious - especially for the (ahem) “older” maintenance engineer whose eyesight might be somewhat compromised for close work. (Each lamp is about the size of a grain of rice, and if one gets dropped, good luck finding it)!