P3Dv4.2 PMDG 777-200LR for Prepar3D v4.2

[BlueStar 323]

19 hours ago, badapple said:

When you get into the cockpit and fly military combat missions in a C-130J come talk to me young man.  Its not an ideal seat for comfort.

Mr. badapple,

Well I'm not a young man, but I have been into An Loc and Khe Sanh.  So what is it you are going to tell us about flying combat?  

[downscc 1,327]

2 hours ago, Boomer said:

"fly military combat missions in a C-130J"

...what exactly would that entail in a transport platform...?

Chris, the Herc's can get involved in combat on any routine day in a threat environment.  Sure there are the special ops birds that are more likely to be behind the lines but even the vanilla Herc is expected to air drop over battle zones, perform fire base resupply, extract wounded, etc.  All Herc pilots have my respect.

[badapple 2]

It all boils down to one fact. There are flight simmers that still have a preference for 2D. For what ever reason it may be.

This was suppose to be a discussion.  Nothing wrong with discussion until people inject their own personal wishes and wants into what they perceive to be facts.

With that said, I'll just close this out.

Happy flying to you all.

 

 

[scandinavian13 5,192]

9 hours ago, badapple said:

This was suppose to be a discussion.

It was...

...until you started slamming people for their opinions. Do not come into this forum, torch people with accusations, and frankly unacceptable personal attacks, and then attempt to ride the high road out of town by accusing others of starting things.

As a final remark, I asked you to sign your posts per forum rules. If you wish to continue posting here, I suggest you heed the warning.

[HighBypass 2,339]

Times change as they say.

There are flightsimmers who still prefer FS9 (nothing wrong with that IMHO) yet plenty of developers no longer support that sim or produce anything new for it... 

Given the advances in graphical resolution and computing power, the days of an edited photo with 2D gauges are rapidly being left behind IMHO.  I only recently got back into simming... ON FSX:SE !! of all things due to the acquisition of a secondhand PC capable of running that program to a reasonable degree. For years my old PC did nothing but allow me to go on the internet and social media.The previous flightsim I had was FS98! My videogaming fix (sorry!) was console based. In fact my videogaming fix still is console based :)

Where am I going with this? Well, I too was a die hard 2D panel fan due to the lack of quality of older VCs; the old VCs were just eye candy (sometimes dubious quality) and you couldn't fly the plane on those alone. Now though, I find myself eyeing up payware planes which do not have a 2D instrument panel - the graphics are such that even on my small monitor 1280 x 1024 resolution I can get the job done. Mind you, given that I play console games I'm used to moving the viewpoint around with a hat - it's very similar to a thumbstick on an XBOX One controller.

If developers choose not to provide a 2D panel then it's up to them. If they can only develop a product which, due to its complexity, will only work on cutting edge hardware then its up to them.

I couldn't play certain games on my XBOX 360 because they required the horsepower of the One. It was something I had to accept (I eventually upgraded!). None of us are getting any younger - a time may come (God forbid!) where I may contract some ailment or condition which prevents me from enjoying simming as one of my hobbies - again I'll have to accept it, just like one day I'll have to give up driving IRL..

Someday there will be no VOR transmitters.... real world aviators will have to accept that and use newer technology...

 

 

[badapple 2]

On 3/12/2018 at 4:23 AM, scandinavian13 said:

I'm assuming you might be a gen av flyer, and you might have limited exposure

Do what you must Scandinavian13.  With the above quote you will see you are the one that set of the little verbal war.  General Aviation?  I understand you don't know me. But to "assume" based on you don't know me?  You set me off.

It seems HighByPass has the only comment worthy of discussion.  He states his position without directing a personal attack such as you did Scandinavian.  And guess what?  He is right, more and more planes being developed without 2D. There are some still being made. However, like he stated none of us are getting younger.

I retired from the military in 1992. I have over 14,000 military flying hours. Yes, I don't like change but it will happen whether I like it or not.  My attempt here was to bring some healthy discussion into the panel situation to show that there may be other people out there in sim land that exclusively use 2D panels.

Something to take with me to Las Vegas in June.

I hope to see you there Scandinavian13. That will be enjoyable.  Until then, do what you have to do.

HighByPass?  thank you for your reply to the discussion. Your point is well taken.

 

Steve Wagner

[scandinavian13 5,192]

2 hours ago, badapple said:

Do what you must Scandinavian13.  With the above quote you will see you are the one that set of the little verbal war.  General Aviation?  I understand you don't know me. But to "assume" based on you don't know me?  You set me off.

Note the heavy use of the word 'might' to note my lack of surety. Since you failed to enumerate your experience in your assertion, I had no other option, really. Moreover, most GA panels do actually have a significant portion of things right in front of you in a way that matched your assertion that flight decks have everything right in front of you.

Not sure what else anyone would have assumed, actually...

3 hours ago, badapple said:

It seems HighByPass has the only comment worthy of discussion.  He states his position without directing a personal attack such as you did Scandinavian.  And guess what?  He is right, more and more planes being developed without 2D. There are some still being made. However, like he stated none of us are getting younger.

Please point out my personal attack. Quote it, please.

"I'm assuming you might be a gen av flyer, and you might have limited exposure" is not a personal attack. It's an assumption of what the facts might be. This isn't out of sorts given the context of the situation, mentioned above.

Based on the limited facts that you provided, it's a natural assumption.

Now, had I said "I'm assuming you might be a weekend warrior, and you probably haven't flown anything sophisticated" you might have somewhat of an argument, but as it stands...no.

3 hours ago, badapple said:

I retired from the military in 1992. I have over 14,000 military flying hours. Yes, I don't like change but it will happen whether I like it or not.  My attempt here was to bring some healthy discussion into the panel situation to show that there may be other people out there in sim land that exclusively use 2D panels.

Earlier, you referenced flying the C-130J in combat environments. It was unclear as to whether you were stating that in generics, or if it was a reference to allude to your experience, but the 130J's first flight wasn't even until 1996.

Regardless, your assertion that you were trying to bring a healthy discussion into this thread is contradicted by the personal shots delivered in response to a harmless observation taken as personal attack, for some reason I have yet to understand. If it is preferable to not be on the defensive about experience, provide it alongside making the assertion.

3 hours ago, badapple said:

Until then, do what you have to do.

Don't need to, thanks to your response where you included your name. Thank you.

[Boomer 1,619]

Excellent things are sorted (?).

Back on topic please, which is:  how's the Md11 for P3dV4 coming along?

[Mace 1,896]

5 hours ago, Boomer said:

Excellent things are sorted (?).

Back on topic please, which is:  how's the Md11 for P3dV4 coming along?

heh.  Nice topic.  I'd definitely be in for the MD-11 for P3Dv4. :)

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

On 3/10/2018 at 12:53 PM, badapple said:

Sorry you feel the way you do.  2D is not a thing of the past. And "learn how to navigate the VC?"   I have piloted aircraft since 1969. I don't have a problem navigating any cockpit. What you refuse to accept is that there are hundreds of people that still would rather have a 2D panel because of the equipment they use for flight sim.  Not every one has the fancy dancy yokes, multiple monitors and/or 3d vision googles and glasses that some of the developers have put all their money on.

And you saqy NGX is the only product line with 2D?  Wrong Mr. downscc.   Just Flight, iFly have active current aircraft and provide 2D panels.   Additionally, Of all the people I fly online with, I can't think of a one that does not use the 2D panel when it is available.

And then we come down to people with disabilities that for what ever reason, can't turn their head 90 degrees, can't rotate the view to see what they are suppose to click, push or pull in a time that is acceptable for "a precision approach?"  There are also some people who have optical disabilities. And talking with them, They do not like to spend much time zooming in and out and adjusting the angle of view just to click one switch.  They need a constant visible optic that they know is there for them to complete the main task of piloting the aircraft.

Mr downscc, you may have the equipment to use the full strength of of 3d or VC cockpit. Thats fine. But there are many many many others who still prefer 2D.  I am one.  I would rather concentrate of the perfection of a flight versus the eye candy to achieve the same feat.  The truth of the matter is in search for realism, eye candy is injected to produce your adrenal flow for your happiness.

Now as for my cockpit experience since 1969,  I tell you from fact my friend,  some of the views that are produced by the use of a top-hat on a joystick or use of keyboard........  NONE and I mean NONE of those views have I ever experienced in a real cockpit.   In a real cockpit, I can usually have full view of the ground surface, below that a full view of the instrument clusters,  to my very low right with my head turned and chin a little down, I can see the radio or navigational panels, above and to the right and can see lighting, electrical.  All in plain view without any effort.

BUT IT IS NOT THE SAME looking with a monitor.  And people know the difference. 

I have two developers why they opted to disregard 2D panels. Both of them told me the same thing. "in an effort to reduce the size of the add-on they chose to delete a 2D panel.  One of them went on to say.....   we also would have to incur additional cost by having a modern panel created from a 3rd party. (I take that as meaning they themselves can't create anything artistically).

There is one more developer, which I will not state their name but will tell you they are a British developer that have received so many requests for 2D panels that they say they are consider putting 2D back into some of the models they have developed in the recent past.

 

At any rate, thank you for your reply. And please, enjoy your VC.

 

Stephen Wagner

Good grief....press and hold the spacebar, move your mouse around then click the required buttons.....It's not that hard to do....

Edited March 16, 2018 by ahsmatt7

[Ephedrin 418]

Flightsim is a hobby... a hobby costs money. PMDG developes and delivers utilities for our hobby. Hobbies move on... I had the Märklin H0 railway many years ago from my father, analogue control... well, try to get analogue controled locomotives... they have become digitally controlled.. all of them.. my antiquated setup was... well... outdated.

And just because some people don‘t want to update their computers or controllers there is actually no reason why developers of high quality addons should take care of this.. I wouldn‘t want to pay for things that are so outmoded like a 2D panel. There is a view straight out without a panel on F10 (2D panel natively) for those who have a cockpit at home. Nothing else needed. And it‘s absolutes easy to move the head in the VC without any addons, just with a button (space bar default). And for those who take it a bit more serious there are plenty of addon apps and hardware to improve the sim as much as one wants to. I am pretty happy with a simple TrackIR that allows 90 degrees movements in the sim with a real head movement of as little as I set it... 

 

comparing a real cockpit with a desktop  is pointless. 

[badapple 2]

To be exact, it was 1994 the the EC-130J was officially release for duty.  Prior to that I was on the test flight team that flew the 130H.  Yeah, your right. its not a J.  But the designation for our 3 aircraft for testing was YEC-130J.  Since your so wise to military I don't need to tell you what the "Y" is for.  Testing and development for the J took 6 years.  The new engines and prop systems were amazing. Every two weeks, new style of props which meant different configurations on a daily basis.  But! Lots of power. More fun to be had until my medical retirement from flying which then lead to my service retirement.  Why stick around if I couldn't fly any longer?

I really don't need to explain this to you but since there are other readers that would like the "truth" instead of accusations, I thought I would pop in.

Go ahead and ban me. Looks like you won't quit.  Your like a democrap.  fake news, fabricating facts and assuming everything without warranted facts.  Oh! and check my post. I did quote your attacking me first with the GA comment.  lol.  Your assumption.

 

[pete_auau 1,152]

think  you need  to go  back  and  read   all of  your  posts  in this  thread  and  see  who is  the one  at fault  here,  when you start  calling  some  one   "young  man",  "my  friend"  etc    And  yes  people  do  have  first names  in here  thats  why  you need  to add  your  name  in here.   

[G-RFRY 1,705]

The answer is simple do your research before buying a product if it is VC panels only don`t buy it.  

[MattS 45]

6 hours ago, badapple said:

Your like a democrap.  fake news, fabricating facts and assuming everything without warranted facts.

There is no place for this here. This is the one site that I can count on to be politics free. There is enough of this crap out there, and we don't need it invading our hobby. It gets old really fast, on all sides. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by MattS