A2A C182 Skylane RXP GTN 650/750

[Indy511 686]

A2A C182 Skylane configuration for the GTN 650/750.
Also includes configuration for the GNS 430/530. This setup allows the use of the C182 Aircraft Configurator_P3D app.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o2ybc9g4d8hfuy6/A2A_C182_Skylane_RXP_GTN650750_GNS.zip?dl=0

The following instructions are included in the ZIP file.

First things first. BACKUP the following files in the A2A_C182 panel folder.
panel_default.cfg
panel_F1_650.cfg
panel_F1_750.cfg
panel_F1_dual.cfg
panel_MINDSTAR_430.cfg
panel_MINDSTAR_530.cfg
panel_MINDSTAR_dual.cfg

Important:
Regarding the panel_default.cfg file (if you DO NOT own the RXP GNS430 do not copy this file). This file provided in the package will install the RXP GPS400 and replace the default A2A GPS400. Otherwise if you own the GNS430 copy it to the panel folder.

The RXP GPS400 is included with the GNS430.

If you don't own all the RXP gauges, still install all .cfg files this way if you decide to purchase additional RXP gauges the above files will be in place and ready to go.

Copy (Extract) the contents of this package to the \A2A\SimObjects\Airplanes\ folder.

You should now have the above .cfg files in the A2A_C182 panel folder, and 2 files; RealityXP.GNS.ini and RealityXP.GTN.ini in the main \A2A_C182 folder. These last 2 files are necessary for the popup gauges to work properly.

You may now use the C182 Aircraft Configurator_P3D app to install the gauge of your choice.

For the RXP GTN 650/750 select the F1 650, 750, or both.
For the RXP GNS 430/530 select the MS 430, 530, or both.
As noted above if you own the GNS430 you can select default to install the GPS400.

Edited March 5, 2018 by RXP

[fppilot 4,364]

So Bill. Have you tried any LPV approaches with this combination yet?  I found myself taking over and approaching with manual control in three different approaches this past weekend with the A2A C182 and GTN 750.  Did a bit of poking around and found this link after searching the issue relative to A2A's implementation of the KAP140 autopilot when used with a GTN:

http://flywithhoward.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/GTN650-KAP140_Coupled_GPS_Approach.pdf

Any experience on your part?  Anyone else?  I was not able to get into the air today to check this info.

If this is true then it is key to recognize when seeing related help requests here.

Edited March 6, 2018 by fppilot

[Indy511 686]

1 hour ago, fppilot said:

So Bill. Have you tried any LPV approaches with this combination yet?  I found myself taking over and approaching with manual control in three different approaches this past weekend with the A2A C182 and GTN 750.  Did a bit of poking around and found this link after searching the issue relative to A2A's implementation of the KAP140 autopilot when used with a GTN:

http://flywithhoward.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/GTN650-KAP140_Coupled_GPS_Approach.pdf

Any experience on your part?  Anyone else?  I was not able to get into the air today to check this info.

If this is true then it is key to recognize when seeing related help requests here.

I have had successful LPV approaches with GTN & GNS with the A2A 172 but not with the 182 w/GTN. I came across that pdf a while back when learning the RNAV approach using LPV.
I'll do a test flight KEYE-KEKM and report back.
Also, there is some additional info on LPV approaches on page 6-20 of the Garmin 750 pilots guide.

Edited March 6, 2018 by bills511

[RXP 2,338]

From the PDF (linked above):

In order to get the KAP140 to follow the glidepath available in a WAAS LPV approach (or LNAV+V), Garmin navigators (530W, 430W, GTN750, and GTN650) activate autopilot output that tell the autopilot that it is going to fly a glidepath in a manner similar to the way it flies an ILS.

 

Both the GTN and the GNS V2 are ready to simulate proper KAP 140 operation. It uses both user settings and published data.

1) To configure the GTN/GNS V2 for use with autopilots having a GPS SELECT input, you need to disable the GUI Settings "Automatic GPS/VLOC Selection":

Enabled: When in GPS mode, the GPS Select output is active whenever a GPS approach mode is active - no associated messages appear and no pilot action is required. The pilot is also allowed to select automatic or manual GPS to ILS CDI transitions on the System Setup page.

Disabled: When in GPS mode, the GPS Select output is active whenever a GPS approach mode is active and the pilot has enabled the A/P APR Outputs (an associated message is displayed telling the pilot to enable the A/P APR Outputs). This setting will not allow the pilot to select automatic GPS to ILS CDI transitions on the System Setup page (only manual transitions are permitted). For Honeywell (Bendix/King) KFC 225 and KAP 140 autopilots.

 

2) The GTN/GNS V2 are already 'publishing' the necessary data needed for the KAP*:

ILS/GPS APPROACH output is active when:

• GPS navigation is selected and either a GPS approach mode is active or 0.3 nm is selected for the CDI full scale deflection; or
• VOR/LOC navigation is selected and an ILS channel has been selected.

This output may be connected to the ILS Engage input of an autopilot or flight director to provide higher autopilot gain while the GTN is operating in the ILS or GPS Approach modes of operation.

GPS SELECT output is active when GPS data is being displayed on the CDI/ HSI and the ILS/GPS Approach Output is not active. It is intended for use with autopilots having a GPS SELECT input (such as the Bendix/King KAP 140 and KFC 225), so that the autopilot can capture vertical guidance while GPS data is being displayed on the CDI/HSI.

*contact RXP for dataref/LVar details (to date, no vendor has contacted us for these, but we've sent the information to A2A already).

Edited March 6, 2018 by RXP

[fppilot 4,364]

Now this experience is specific ONLY to the A2A C182 Skylane.  I flew three approaches today and had mixed results. 

First, the integration and sequence of events described in the .pdf I linked did not occur during any of the three approaches.  At no time did I receive an option on the GTN screen like the one described.  I did on two approaches, between the appearance of the LPV indication and the FAF, receive a GTN screen button to select Visual Approach.  The first times I have seen that option appear.

On my first two approaches I got no vertical guidance.  I passed the FAF and the AP did not take over vertical.  Only the lateral guidance.  Went around both times.  For the first approach I failed to log what I had set in the RXP GTN Panel Instrument settings in the settings menu (shift right-click on top border of GTN).  Then I messed around with those settings as I was setting up for my second approach attempt and again failed to log what I did.  I also did not capture vertical guidance for that second approach.

For the third approach I had activated all of the settings in the Panel Instrument settings.  You know, throw everything in the book at it.  It finally captured vertical guidance.  After capturing, it kept the A2A C182 on the glidepath, but did so porpoising from a pronounced nose up attitude to a pronounced nose down attitude, going from one to the other all the way down, but keeping the VASI where it should.  Very strange.

Didn't take time for any additional approaches today.  Frustrated with the A2A C182.  I have had difficulty with yoke settings, rudder sensitivity, and with the trim wheel settings, both with FSUIPC and with SPAD:Next.  One time they work well, the next time not!  Difficulties I do not have with other aircraft.  Love to fly it when it behaves, but not when it doesn't.  I will not take it out when I may have to shoot an IFR approach.

Edited March 6, 2018 by fppilot

[Indy511 686]

LPV approaches in the A2A 182 work fine for me. Had a few mishaps last night (not following the right procedure I think) but now had it working every time today. The point Jean-Luc made regarding "Automatic GPS/VLOC Selection" helped. Missed this before. I now keep it disengaged.
 

6 hours ago, fppilot said:

porpoising from a pronounced nose up attitude to a pronounced nose down attitude, going from one to the other all the way down

I get this too. Managed to get it under control with some practice. It usually happened when setting the flaps. I set 10° flaps at around 90 knots making fine throttle adjustments to keep the porpoising under control. Once it settles then 20° around 80 knots. I do this just prior to reaching the IAF at the published altitude. Reduce airspeed to about 70-75 knots and full flaps upon reaching the FAF. Then thereafter maintaining 65-70 knots as the AP captures the GS. Disengage the AP at 200 feet AGL. I use RAD ALT data on the GTN to monitor the altitude on approach.
Next time I'll set up some very low visibility and practice some more LPV approaches.

Edited March 7, 2018 by bills511

[RXP 2,338]

12 hours ago, bills511 said:

The point Jean-Luc made regarding "Automatic GPS/VLOC Selection" helped. Missed this before. I now keep it disengaged.

Unfortunately this is only half of the solution, the other half being vendors implementing their own A/P logic instead of using the in-sim A/P system, to ALSO read the GTN/GNS V2 'ILS/GPS APPROACH' AND 'GPS SELECT' signals to switch their A/P logic accordingly.

12 hours ago, bills511 said:

I get this too. Managed to get it under control with some practice. It usually happened when setting the flaps. I set 10° flaps at around 90 knots making fine throttle adjustments to keep the porpoising under control.

From the feedback I gather, it looks like A2A A/P works as long as you enable 'Connect GPS to VOR Indicator'. In doing so, this makes the A2A code think it is actually receiving a valid VLOC signal and this makes the A2A A/P working accordingly. However, it is possible the signal update rate as seen from our GPS is too high, or too low, and their A/P code is just trying to compensate with a lag because of this, hence, the over-reacting pitch control. Please note the GTN/GNS V2 output their data at 20 Hz already, which should be quite enough (FltSim updates its own variables at about 18 hz)

Edited March 7, 2018 by RXP

[fppilot 4,364]

11 hours ago, bills511 said:

I set 10° flaps at around 90 knots making fine throttle adjustments to keep the porpoising under control. Once it settles then 20° around 80 knots. I do this just prior to reaching the IAF at the published altitude. Reduce airspeed to about 70-75 knots and full flaps upon reaching the FAF. Then thereafter maintaining 65-70 knots as the AP captures the GS.

Well in retrospect for my third approach, where the porpoising occurred, I was likely not anywhere close to those settings/speeds approaching the IAF or FAF.  My err was that in the pattern during that third approach I stayed at the 1,600 ft altitude published for the FAF. That just to insure no other influence on vertical engagement.  (IAF published altitude was 2,000 ft.)  So I reached the point of AP vertical engagement for attempt three at perhaps 90 knots or higher and engaging 20° flaps at the point descent started.  That is obviously what caused the porpoising, which only occurred on that third attempt.  Guess I am too accustomed to faster, heavier aircraft. 

The only light Cessna I ever flew was an Army T51 (C150 variant) for my initial pilot training.  That in 1969.  Oddly I have hardly ever been up for a ride in a light high-winged aircraft since.

 

[Dirk98 354]

3 hours ago, RXP said:

ALSO read the GTN/GNS V2 'ILS/GPS APPROACH' AND 'GPS SELECT'

Which document is that? Where is that one?

Thanks!

[RXP 2,338]

@Dirk98 this data is available to A2A developers, for their own interfacing. It is not the kind of data that serves any purpose otherwise.

[Bill Griffith 160]

On 3/5/2018 at 6:51 PM, fppilot said:

So Bill. Have you tried any LPV approaches with this combination yet?  I found myself taking over and approaching with manual control in three different approaches this past weekend with the A2A C182 and GTN 750.  Did a bit of poking around and found this link after searching the issue relative to A2A's implementation of the KAP140 autopilot when used with a GTN:

http://flywithhoward.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/GTN650-KAP140_Coupled_GPS_Approach.pdf

Any experience on your part?  Anyone else?  I was not able to get into the air today to check this info.

If this is true then it is key to recognize when seeing related help requests here.

No I haven't tried it yet Frank.  It will be a little bit before I can give it a go.  I have just gotten my A2A C182 to work correctly.  After reinstalling I had the taxi problem which I had forgotten about.  I have just finished putting a new case, motherboard and processor under my old computer  😉  which had bitten the dust. Thanks for the link to the PDF. 

 

Bill

 

Bill

[Bill Griffith 160]

On 3/5/2018 at 6:51 PM, fppilot said:

So Bill. Have you tried any LPV approaches with this combination yet?  I found myself taking over and approaching with manual control in three different approaches this past weekend with the A2A C182 and GTN 750.  Did a bit of poking around and found this link after searching the issue relative to A2A's implementation of the KAP140 autopilot when used with a GTN:

http://flywithhoward.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/GTN650-KAP140_Coupled_GPS_Approach.pdf

Any experience on your part?  Anyone else?  I was not able to get into the air today to check this info.

If this is true then it is key to recognize when seeing related help requests here.

    I have now Frank.  I had various and assorted problems with my setup but finally I have everything functioning.  I had issues at first with the RXP 750 due to my not knowing how to configure it properly.  Once I figured that out with help from one of Bills511's post (Thank you very much.) on making the RXP the 'Master Device"then had the RXP 750 working.  Prior to this I had reinstalled the F1 GTN and I flew an approach with no problem.  I removed the F1 GTN and reinstalled the RXP and flew the same approach and it flew right through the glide slope.  I re-flew the approach using the procedures in the pdf file by Howard Wolvington and the RXP 750 changed to LPV just after the IAF as it should but the write up by Howard Wolvington  stated that shortly after switching to LPV the GTN should give you a message "APR Guidance Available' and a button on the screen to' 'Enable APR Output'.  I didn't get the message and the KAP140 didn't couple to the glide slope.  I was in NAV tracking up to that point as the article said that you could use HDG, ROL or NAV and ALT Hold up until then and then select APR.  Now the F! GTN coupled and actually it shouldn't have and the RXP didn't and it should have.  With the appropriate messages that is.  Now my understanding that all of this is because of the KAP140 autopilot being used.  I haven't tried the RXP with any other aircraft with different autopilots but I will.  One nit is that the in panel &%) display is quite a bit brighter then the disp[lay on the pop-up display.  I did go into the setup and turned the display brightness down so the the panel display wasn't so bright and washed out looking.  As I said, a nit.  😉

    I like, for lack of a better word, the 'feel' of the RXP and with my limited time with it, it seems to work just fine.  I'm happy with the purchase.  That is my experience so far Frank.  Thank you for turning me on to the RXP.  🙂

Bill

[RXP 2,338]

On 6/26/2018 at 9:09 PM, Bill Griffith said:

I didn't get the message and the KAP140 didn't couple to the glide slope.  I was in NAV tracking up to that point as the article said that you could use HDG, ROL or NAV and ALT Hold up until then and then select APR ... the RXP didn't and it should have. 

Hi,

thank you for the extensive details and as-in-real-life experience with our product!

The reason it doesn't work like in the described procedure is very easy: the aircraft autopilot looks and behave like a KAP140, but it is missing an important input, the signal the GTN is sending to this autopilot for it to couple and change mode properly.

This is expected, this aircraft A/P has been coded to function without any third party GTN first and foremost, and only the Reality XP GTN product (as far as I know) is actually publishing the aforementioned signal should a A/P developer wants to take advantage of it!

Provided it would read our GTN published data, this A/P could be enhanced to function exactly like the real one connected to our GTN (and to our GNS V2 as well!)

 

 

[Bill Griffith 160]

22 minutes ago, RXP said:

Hi,

thank you for the extensive details and as-in-real-life experience with our product!

The reason it doesn't work like in the described procedure is very easy: the aircraft autopilot looks and behave like a KAP140, but it is missing an important input, the signal the GTN is sending to this autopilot for it to couple and change mode properly.

This is expected, this aircraft A/P has been coded to function without any third party GTN first and foremost, and only the Reality XP GTN product (as far as I know) is actually publishing the aforementioned signal should a A/P developer wants to take advantage of it!

Provided it would read our GTN published data, this A/P could be enhanced to function exactly like the real one connected to our GTN (and to our GNS V2 as well!)

 

 

    Thank you for the reply and explanation.  Hopefully A2A will add that function to there KAP140 one day.  I would look forward to having to enable the descent as in a real situation.  I felt that the RXP was more realistic in not capturing the GS in that situation.  Sometimes we want more realism then we can get.  😉  Would the RXP installation  install the same for the A2A Comanche as for the A2A C182.  I'm thinking that it might need its own custom files.  Obviously the S-TEC 30 autopilot in the Comanche doesn't have a glideslope capture function to be concerned about. 

    I'm now an RXP fan.  Thank you for a great product.

 

Bill

Edited June 28, 2018 by Bill Griffith
Added word.

[RXP 2,338]

Thank you for your kind words! Don't hesitate to lobby other third party aircraft vendors too!

Especially since we have an open policy with third party vendors (our installer and manuals already contain nearly all the needed information) as well as with our customers (this forum doesn't require registration to read).

The more pre-configured aircraft, the better for their and our customers!