11.20 coming to final

[GCBraun 2,392]

21 minutes ago, ryanbatcund said:

"In the next years"  hehe well I can't disagree with that.  Practical VR has a long way to go - maybe in three years it will be usable

It IS already usable (esp. now with native VR on ALL sims)... 

It may take some years for a majority of the users to upgrade. Seeing your PC configuration, it would cost you a small fortune to make it VR ready AND buy a VR headset. That is the reason.

VR is and has been for some time not only usable, but arguably the best way to simulate (not saying that it cannot improve). I speak this having a 65 4k TV and a 34 Ultrawide Monitor. I would never go back to using just a flat 2D screen.

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by GCBraun

[carlito777 712]

4 hours ago, ryanbatcund said:

Practical VR has a long way to go

You haven‘t tried VR yet, right? Otherwise, I really can‘t understand that statement. 

[Griphos 138]

Kind of got off track here a bit.  VR is a separate discussion (and, personally, I'm not cutting myself off from the world with a goofy pair of goggles just to see things in low resolution and not be able to see my controls).

Back on topic.  Do try the demo, but be sure to tweak the graphics settings.  Out of the box, it may not run very well for you, so don't judge it by that.

Also, to echo a couple of other comments, helicopters are indeed an excellent reason for flying Xplane.  Not as faithful a rendition of chopper flight as DCS (so I understand....no real world experience in eggbeaters at all for me), but the Dreamfoil 407 (newly updated for v11.20) is indeed a joy to fly.  I'm looking forward to Dreamfoil updates for their other helos.  

[Paraffin 2,197]

6 hours ago, GCBraun said:

It IS already usable (esp. now with native VR on ALL sims)... 

It may take some years for a majority of the users to upgrade. Seeing your PC configuration, it would cost you a small fortune to make it VR ready AND buy a VR headset. That is the reason.

VR is and has been for some time not only usable, but arguably the best way to simulate (not saying that it cannot improve). I speak this having a 65 4k TV and a 34 Ultrawide Monitor. I would never go back to using just a flat 2D screen.

The "best way to simulate" isn't absolute. It will be different for all of us. 

I will dive into VR eventually when the resolution is good enough for cockpit instrument displays, and I'll upgrade my GPU and buy the VR gear.

However, I'll still probably only use it for short sightseeing flights like helicopter runs down the Grand Canyon. Maybe for takeoff and landings, then remove it for the cruise. Most of my sim flying is in the FSEconomy game, where I'm in cruise for an hour or two, plus takeoff and landing. Unless there is some massive improvement in the VR facebrick comfort, size, and weight, I just can't see myself spending 2+ hours continuously inside VR. 

 

[tonywob 4,768]

14 hours ago, ryanbatcund said:

"In the next years"  hehe well I can't disagree with that.  Practical VR has a long way to go - maybe in three years it will be usable

I agree with Ryan here. I gave up using VR with flight simulators because the resolution and performance is just too limiting. Here are some things that really bother me:

• Resolution is too low to be useful. Being unable to read runway numbers when only 100ft away is pretty useless as a training tool and trying to navigate VFR using landmarks is impossible.
• Needing to lean forward to read dials or use the GPS. Really ruins the experience
• Headaches and eye-strain. I get these pretty quickly and it can take me out for a few hours.
• Performance. The need to turn down all the settings, and eventually ending up with flat scenery which looks very bad. I don't get how people are wanting better high-res headsets, when we can barely run the ones we have now. I think there needs to be a big improvement in software before this can happen.
• Flying over orthos feels like flying over a huge carpet, it looks really bad in VR. Anybody who has used VR will know what I mean by this :)

Of course, there are some things it really excels at, one of them being circuit practice which is quite realistic (if you pretend you have cataracts and forgot your super-strength glasses ). At the moment, high resolution and clarity are more important than the feeling of sitting in the cockpit.

Other games don't fare so well either. Some are very good, but others are nothing more than expensive fads. I purchased a virtual tour guide of Venice, and whilst it looked good, it was just horribly pixellated and blurry and it really takes away from the experience for me.

In a few years time, when the tech catches up, it's going to be awesome, but for now my OR is sat gathering dust.

[CaptCWGAllen 49]

6 minutes ago, tonywob said:

I agree with Ryan here. I gave up using VR with flight simulators because the resolution and performance is just too limiting. Here are some things that really bother me:..........

Hmmm -  I have an alternative view  - is it that this is dependent on systems capability? Because I find that with the latest version:

• Ortho looks great - where there is no autogen the buildings and trees often look 3 D. The detail on the mountains around LOWI is amazing - I marvel, for example, at the how the crevices in the rock are displayed. Even the flat lands such as Florida look great because the details on the ground (e.g. stadiums and golf courses). 
• I run autogen at one off highest, textures one off highest, HDR on and middle range anti aliasing  and then set the FPS wizard to max frames. Oculus Tray tool is set to limit to 45 frames.  I flew out of ORBX Meigs last night and the level of detail was incredible. The whole city was full of autogen and a steady 45 frames was maintained. I flew low along the highway ad 130kts in the stock Baron just to see how it would cope - smooth as butter. The lampposts were very disconcerting though as they zoomed by just underneath. Coming into land over the I then used replay and flew in ride along mode - that is an amazing experience which I highly recommend.
• Clouds are amazing (I use the native clouds) - obviously have to keep these pretty much to few or broken.
• I can read all the dials in the cockpit (even the baro reading although it is a little blurred) and can set the GPS using the Oculus controllers without leaning forward (i.e. I can see the airport ICAO clearly enough to set up a direct route). I cannot read the detail on the GPS screen without leaning forward but the magenta line is clear. Also the in cockpit 'iPad' is very useful and easy to zoom in.
• I am very fortunate to have a PFC C2 flight console which I know by feel so don't have to look at it  - but if i do get slightly disorientated I can look down my nose and see all the switcher and knobs 
• I don't get eye strain or headaches now the judder is fixed. 

Obviously it is not perfect because there is pixelation but it is not, for me bad enough to stop me using it 90% of the time, Some commentary would indicate that DCS is the current state of the art for flight VR - I think XP VR is at least as good (if not better when considering the amount of autogen) and of course the whole world is your lobster. 

cheers

Peter

[tonywob 4,768]

Thanks for he feedback Peter. Complete opposite for me. I think I'm limited by hardware, but also I wear glasses and these are pretty uncomfortable to use. I certainly can't read the GPS at all without literally putting my face into it.

 

[GCBraun 2,392]

48 minutes ago, tonywob said:

Thanks for he feedback Peter. Complete opposite for me. I think I'm limited by hardware, but also I wear glasses and these are pretty uncomfortable to use. I certainly can't read the GPS at all without literally putting my face into it.

 

I also use glasses and there are multiple vendors that sell custom lenses for the HMD's. I use a pair from https://vr-lens-lab.com/ and they work great!

The latest XP11 VR beta with integrated Rift SDK is really, really well done. Almost all of your observations are not an issue at all on my config.

Edited March 15, 2018 by GCBraun

[Griphos 138]

Hijack alert!!

Perhaps the VR conversation can move to its own thread for those who are interested. This discussion is only tangentially related to the OP's question about whether to get XP11.20 at best.

[CarlosF 1,236]

1 hour ago, Griphos said:

Hijack alert!!

Perhaps the VR conversation can move to its own thread for those who are interested. This discussion is only tangentially related to the OP's question about whether to get XP11.20 at best.

 

I suggest let the OP decide if his thread has been hijacked or not, I for one don't mind the VR conversation. 

[tonywob 4,768]

Well since 11.20 is going to contain VR for anyone who hasn't been trying the betas, it is certainly relevant to the discussion.

[ryanbatc 12,833]

20 hours ago, carlito777 said:

You haven‘t tried VR yet, right? Otherwise, I really can‘t understand that statement. 

I have - but only for a short time.  On DCS it was excellent. On P3D and XP not so much.  The blurry everything was distracting.  And being that I fly online, reading charts and manipulating radios isn't really doable without a lot of hardware.

And I'd  definitely need a new pc if I were to go VR. 

Theres one more big reason why I don't like it.  It's so lonely. You can't share it with others while you're flying.  I like to occasionally have my boys on my lap when I fly (they're 3 and 5) and we couldn't do that with VR.

[Griphos 138]

Actually, I got this thread confused with the thread asking to be talked into trying XP11. (Although I don't think it is solely the OP that is the arbiter of whether a thread is hijacked).  

Carry on...

(Although, again, I'll repeat that, like Ryan, I find the idea of VR appealing, but its current practice definitely off-putting.  I envision a world in which we are all wandering around absolutely cut off from each other...now, when we get the holodeck up an running, count me in!!!)

[carlito777 712]

4 hours ago, ryanbatcund said:

I have - but only for a short time.  On DCS it was excellent. On P3D and XP not so much.  The blurry everything was distracting.  And being that I fly online, reading charts and manipulating radios isn't really doable without a lot of hardware.

And I'd  definitely need a new pc if I were to go VR. 

Theres one more big reason why I don't like it.  It's so lonely. You can't share it with others while you're flying.  I like to occasionally have my boys on my lap when I fly (they're 3 and 5) and we couldn't do that with VR.

These are all fair points why YOU might not like VR at this point. But it doesn‘t mean that VR is not practical for other people as it is today. I would also not fly in VR on all occassions but for some it is already amazing in it‘s current form. 

[ryanbatc 12,833]

Yep those are my cons