Since the thread is locked I thought I'd mention as an alternative the less expensive boxed CD version packaged by Aerosoft of the PMDG version. Unlike the PMDG download which requires their 600/700 DL the Aerosoft CD PMDG 737NG 800/900 stands alone and comes with the bonus of some printed operations and FMC manuals for USD 40 plus shipping. www.aerosoft.com and look for bundled specials there.I have been well pleased with the detail in operations of this product. Support on the install is from Aerosoft and support on the models is the PMDG support forum here at AVSIM.It is also sold by many sim retail shops.This post just offers an alternative and is not meant as a criticism of Ariane products or policies.

Good post Ron:I just learned from a reply to another post that this was available. So far I felt that I was at the mercy of having to buy everything to get anything, which in PMDG's defence I admit is not quite fair.I was turned off by PMDG's new policy in the past few weeks that is supposed to make it easier on me that I have to purchase and renew (pay some more every year) for a gurantee of future redownload capability for what is a high priced spread already. (Lost one purchased before that policy went into effect with no recourse - gone forever as far as I am concerned).Without a doubt PMDG makes some of the best mousetraps for FS, but I sure hope they revise their download policy to be more user friendly. It is a bit like when the VW Bug's were available back in past years when the gas crunch hit. They added to the suggested retail price just due to demand which is like a ransom in my view.The aerosoft offering appears to negate just ablut all negative factors in my book and I am happy to see it. May not be quite equal to distribution through Flight1, but certainly a move in the right direction.Happy flying:RTH

Without a doubt PMDG makes some of the best mousetraps for FS, but I sure hope they revise their download policy to be more user friendly. It is a bit like when the VW Bug's were available back in past years when the gas crunch hit. They added to the suggested retail price just due to demand which is like a ransom in my view.PMDG delivers the product to you and prompts you to back up... IF you need to get all your stuff back from them over a year after product release, THEN they reserve the right of asking for a fee. Sounds reasonable to me, it's like having a CD, only with a one-year warranty. If you lose your CD, does the store have to give you a new one? No. Also, in my experience, PMDG has been nothing but cooperative at giving product information back... I would think after a year, it might be quite a bit of digging through the records to find a product ID... And as long as you back up your stuff properly and keep your registration info in a safe place, I don't think you'd ever need to go to them in the first place.Just my .02...Daniel P.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpgMember of SJU Photography. [A HREF=http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=9004]Click Here[/A] to view my aircraft photos at JetPhotos.Net!The official psychotic AA painter. :)

I can agree with the above post, PMDG is a outstanding group of people. There customer services is also outstanding. You cannot go wrong with purchasing there products, they stay a head of the development market. PMDG are very cooperative, kind in a time when some other developers have forgotten what it means to deliver excellent customer service. I have been very happy with my purchases and the excellent customer service that I have received. I myself am looking forward to their MD-11 and ther Airbuses.Charles Huckelbery

If PMDG charges you for services that cost them money beyond a set period or service level they do no different than most companies.It's pretty much just this industry of game addons that have so far in large part not implemented such policies.Company I work for creates and sells software as well (in fact I write the stuff).You can't buy that software unless you also buy a support contract, which is needed to keep your license to use the software valid as well as to receive ANY updates and support at all.On top of that customers have to pay for all feature upgrades.This is normal practice in a B2B environment, and parts of if are normal in a B2C environment as well.As FS addons get ever larger and more complex (and thus more expensive to create and maintain) expect more and more companies in this market to implement similar policies, which at the same time help deter piracy in that pirates now can no longer get updates and support (which is sold only in combination with the product and is both personalised and dependent on the product).

Sorry, this explanation won't cut it. Flight One has THE best process - without charging you a red dime for reinstalls. So the explanation offered is without merit.

>Sorry, this explanation won't cut it. Flight One has THE best>process - without charging you a red dime for reinstalls. So>the explanation offered is without merit. This is not a defense of PMDG's policies so please do not link my responce to this idea. I will agree that Flight 1's wrapper is a great tool (The best in fact) but it is their tool - not PMDG's. So either PMDG gets a license from Flight 1 to use their wrapper (We all can gather this won't happen) or they continue to grow and develope new ways to deliver their products to their customers or they continue to stay the course. This will depend I believe on how many complaints they get over the policy (as with most developers who wish to make customers happy). Personally I believe company policies discussions are taboo unless one happens to be of the said company in an official way. In fact this "policy" is the main reason that I no longer post on PMDG's forum and I will continue not to do so. I said basically the same thing many others have in replys to others on PMDG's forum - namely to backup your stuff on CD or pay the measly 3 bucks or whatever it costs and quit whining. This was taken of course as not something one should ever do to a paying customer regardless of whether the person happens to be a troll or just wants to "vent" because it's the right for customers to "vent" "whine" and "moan" (LOL) but not alright for customers/beta testers to "vent - whine -and moan in defense". I did not really ever think that we customers beta testers needed to "protect" PMDG's policies - it's just if one posts something really derogatory I believe it needs a responce (Bad idea). Being a tester is even worse simply because everyone attributes your responces as semi official so that one can no longer respond in the manner he is use to but has to give group hugs to everyone on a forum so as not to give the developer a "black eye". I still believe that a support forum is that, a place to ask questions pertaining to the use of the product and not the policies of that product. LDS was pretty smart, they chose to limit the discussions and worthless posts instead of placating bitter opponates simply because they happened to purchase the product. Post junk = get deleted. I like that approach and is why I am not going to change who I am or the way I deal with folks who come out swinging in the first place simply because I donate my time for other to have monetary gain. ...............Randy J. Smith................CAUTION! My views represent no one but my own. While I do help companies test products - this in no way means I represent them in ANY fashion.[h4]Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations[/h4]

>I would think after a>year, it might be quite a bit of digging through the records>to find a product ID... And as long as you back up your stuff>properly and keep your registration info in a safe place, I>don't think you'd ever need to go to them in the first place.Not true. Relational Database Management Systems (RDBMS) which have existed for 40 years can pull up any old record by any number of means in a millisecond. This is completely automatable and maintenance free as long as there is a decent means for authentication. No POS (Point of Sale) software runs with out a RDBMS as its back end.CheersShad

I don't agree that this is a necessity because I know these charges are artificial. The complexity if the software increase with the flexibility of the toolset. It is actually easier to make software today than it was years ago. Game makers are becoming less "core coders" and more development "technicians" because the toolsets are so robust. What used to take a team of 50 can now be done by two.The B2B world and the B2C world really don't want the C world to know this, and the B2B world, being mercinary in nature knows that they are shielded from the wrath of C because C is not theirs, and thus have a tendency to milk the B for all its worth. There is a philosophy spoken loudly in any business school. "Charge the most you can get away with." B2bs only deal with other Bs, and these days most Bs are less concerned with QA and CS than they are with growth and share value. Profitability based on good lean management and customer loyalty (which is earned not granted) seems to have been forgotten in the zeal for globalization and higher margins. (now tie in stock perfomance as executive incentive and you begin to see the conflict of interest):)CheersShad

Sorry, this explanation won't cut it. Flight One has THE best process - without charging you a red dime for reinstalls. So the explanation offered is without merit....and who's explaining anything? I am not PMDG staff, so I'm unsure as to why you feel you're owed an explanation... :-lolThe truth is, not buying is the best way to make a statement. After all, they do clearly state this if you go to the product pages... Not true. Relational Database Management Systems (RDBMS) which have existed for 40 years can pull up any old record by any number of means in a millisecond. This is completely automatable and maintenance free as long as there is a decent means for authentication. No POS (Point of Sale) software runs with out a RDBMS as its back end.Point taken. Now, I am evidently not knowledgeable in this area, but surely implementing this system costs money? To be honest, I don't mind the fee because I've never had to pay it, and that's because I properly back up my stuff. :) And going even farther, if I trashed the external hard drive AND CD's, I wouldn't mind paying a few bucks to get 'em back. But I guess I'm more giving than most. :)Cheers,Daniel P.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpgMember of SJU Photography. [A HREF=http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=9004]Click Here[/A] to view my aircraft photos at JetPhotos.Net!The official psychotic AA painter. :)