FFPS:FFTF question

[OzWhitey 3,353]

1 hour ago, GSalden said:

LM wants the developers to change their way of making photoscenery .

However , all of them , including FranceVFR and Orbx are doing it the known way...

In what way, Gerard? The only way I know to make orthoscenery is via the resample tool in the P3D SDK. Is there another way? (I've got Gran Canaria brewing in the background right now...)

Rockliffe - I don't usually see any delayed loading of orthoscenery in P3D v4. I noticed a little yesterday, and that was the first time in a while. And that was with 25cm per pixel scenery, in a PMDG jet at 250 knots plus, in VR. I fly native VR, home made ortho, 5820K hexacore @ 4,4GHz, no affinity mask, 1080Ti. I bought the 5820K based on an unproven theory around here that it would load ortho better than the quad cores. Whilst I haven't compared directly, Ive been very happy overall with its orthoscenery performance. Note that I have a bunch of sliders turned down for VR smoothness (no autogen, no shadows etc). 

Btw, I always use the P3D resample tool, as it seems to have been updated (or at least resaved) by LM on 8th Feb 2018. I just rename it to resampleFSXSP2, alll good. Not sure if it makes any difference, but I figure it's not going to be any less compatible than the FSX version.

The problem I do see with ortho in v4 is not related to delayed texture loading (which i remember well from the olden days, seemed to be largely a thing fo the past for me since v3). It's that texture in the middistance - lets say 1 km away - is inappropriately low res. It's not related to loading (doesn't change if you sit there for an hour) or LOD radius. Try it by making some 7cm per pixel ortho and slewing a little off the ground at one end of the runway. BY half way down the runway, things start to look decidedly muddy.

As for the tool in question, I guess my main interest would be:

- impact on VR performance (as asked by another poster above)

- impact on orthoscenery

 

 

Edited March 19, 2018 by OzWhitey

[Rocky_53 1,566]

Just now, RALF9636 said:

It's easy to find out if the blurries are just a low resolution LOD or caused be a delay of the texture loading.

Just pause the sim and see if the blurries get sharp after some time. In that case it was indeed a delay of texture loading. If the blurries remain when the sim is paused it is just the low res LOD.

 

And did you try to limit your FPS to a value you can always maintain? I only get blurries if I use a too high FPS limit that cannot be maintained.

Hi Ralf, sure, as I say, I've tried every conceivable combination of settings. Running at locked 25 frames at the moment with the monitor refresh rate also at 25Hz. No change. If there is, it is almost imperceivable.

[RALF9636 1,898]

3 hours ago, Afterburner said:

If you fly at high altitude, the CPU load is usually much lower, and you can achieve high FPS if you use the unlimited setting. If your unlimited FPS is, let's say, more than 50, and you limit your FPS to 30 while using FFTF=0.01, you won't necessarily risk blurries, because the computer has plenty of CPU reserves, which it dedicates to building the scenery.

On the other hand, if your unlimited FPS over a big city is 20-ish, and you use a target FPS of 30 in combination with FFTF=0.01, then the system will aim at maintaining a higher frame rate, while incurring late texture and autogen loading. In that case, there are two ways to counter these effects: You can either increase FFTF, OR lower your FPS to below 20. The latter would have the same effect on FPS as increasing the FFTF value anyway.

 

Exactly my experience. FFTF=0.01 does not cause blurries as long as the FPS target is reached. And if the target is not reached, inreasing the FFTF will decrease the FPS even more. Better to choose a lower FPS target or reduce settings to reach the higher target.

 

 

[GSalden 4,655]

Guys, the issue is more about photo real scenery than about landclass scenery which is looking good en even can be improved by choosing high res textures. 

Orbx is going to release FTX Netherlands real soon , which is photo real scenery + custom AG + custom objects and they also want to do the same for the UK. As Orbx is a major player around I hope that LM consider improving the LOD of existing photo real scenery.

[OzWhitey 3,353]

1 minute ago, Rockliffe said:

Hi Ralf, sure, as I say, I've tried every conceivable combination of settings. Running at locked 25 frames at the moment with the monitor refresh rate also at 25Hz. No change. If there is, it is almost imperceivable.

Howard, see my post above. I'd consider brewing a little scenery with the FS Earth Tiles tools if I was you, and use the P3D v4 version of resample. Would make a good test. Turn off autogen, reflections, shadows, anything else that might be stretching your CPU or GPU, and see if your ortho will load in a snappy manner. As I mentioned, I found v3 loaded ortho really nicely, and I haven't been cursed with the dreaded "ortho pop" in the years since then. I fly with it almost every day, 0.5m per pixel is a nice resolution for smooth P3D v4 flying (as mentioned, at 25 cm per pixel or less I do see some delayed loading if I look).

[OzWhitey 3,353]

1 hour ago, GSalden said:

Guys, the issue is more about photo real scenery than about landclass scenery which is looking good en even can be improved by choosing high res textures. 

Orbx is going to release FTX Netherlands real soon , which is photo real scenery + custom AG + custom objects and they also want to do the same for the UK. As Orbx is a major player around I hope that LM consider improving the LOD of existing photo real scenery.

Whilst I hope that LM further improves orthoscenery as they progress, I'm very happy with my ortho peformance in v4. So it's possible to get it working under the right circumstances, there's no show-stopping problems with it per se (though Howard is not the only person to be experiencing problems). 

I fly ortho in x-plane a bit but prefer the P3D v4 interpretation of it at this point in history.

Edit: about to test my Gran Canaria build in the NGX. Then masking up Tenerife. :)

Edit 2: Seeing as there's a lot of possible issues raised about orthoscenery in this thread, here's a shot of me taking off from La Gomera, one of the volcanic islands in the Canaries, about 2 minutes ago. This is just some random ortho I masked and resampled in the midst of posting on this thread. No texture 'pop' whatsoever as I am flying, except when I first slewed here from Tenerife to test the scenery. I don't think P3D likes it when you get behind in your ortho loading, but with typical flying (in a jet, as opposed to slewing 40 miles in a few seconds) I don't have any problems with texture loading at all.

So if you're having problems with ortho in P3D, don't give up! And if you're staying away from it because you've heard there's issues, don't. For the majority of people with modern systems you should be able to achieve excellent performance once you set things up well.

 

Edited March 19, 2018 by OzWhitey

[SteveW 1,792]

I'm sensing that the FFTF tweak is being desperately mis-interpreted as some means to increase fps.

The time to load all the scene takes many seconds and is distributed through those seconds amongst the fibres. If they are set to collect data for less of the time (percentage time per frame time) by FFTF this is not saying they give more percentage to the frame rate.

When loading the scenario see how long it takes to complete. You will see that this time reduces as we add LPs (or cores) up to a point.

if we have a four core and have HT off we might not be getting the full capacity avilable because P3D will split out to run the background tasks on those extra LPs and in that way they will use up more time data gathering without the requirement of altering FFTF.

[GSalden 4,655]

Exactly , this is not about more fps , but having a solid framerate  + fighting blurries in the air.

Like it has been said before you need a stable base with a correct AM.

Regarding the program FSPS has posted a tutorial on how to set it up :

https://www.fspsstore.com/blog/news/fftf-dynamic-p3dv4

 

[pmb 5,137]

A more down to Earth question: How do you start this Gerard? I usually start P3D via SimStarter. Is FFTF Dynamic started via exe.xml or manually in advance of/alongside the simulator (this way one could start it via SimStrater as an additional program as well).

I hope there are no traces left in case it's unstalled for whatever reason...?

Thanks and kind regards, Michael

[GSalden 4,655]

7 hours ago, pmb said:

A more down to Earth question: How do you start this Gerard? I usually start P3D via SimStarter. Is FFTF Dynamic started via exe.xml or manually in advance of/alongside the simulator (this way one could start it via SimStrater as an additional program as well).

I hope there are no traces left in case it's unstalled for whatever reason...?

Thanks and kind regards, Michael

Hi Michael,

FFTF Dynamic is started manually. I start it by batchfile ( affinity set).

Regards,

Gerard

[Peter Webber 339]

Hi, since P3D v4 I have not needed to "tweak" any of my settings...I have 7700k with a 1080TI...I guess that all these "adjustments" in this thread are maybe meant for older hardware? I simply fire up and fly! All this chat is mind boggling to me. I load P3D, select my PMDG choice, and go fly..and that's it! I understand that setups are different, but with standard modern hardware, tweaks should be a thing of the past..i have a 4k monitor at 30Hz with vsynch enabled and that all i need...

[Cruachan 705]

Hi Peter,

With all respect I would encourage you to read through this thread again. You will then understand that there are many reasons why users, even those with very capable modern hardware, may be interested in what this product has to offer.

Regards,

Mike

[ErichB 3,638]

1 hour ago, Peter Webber said:

Hi, since P3D v4 I have not needed to "tweak" any of my settings...I have 7700k with a 1080TI...I guess that all these "adjustments" in this thread are maybe meant for older hardware? I simply fire up and fly! All this chat is mind boggling to me. I load P3D, select my PMDG choice, and go fly..and that's it! I understand that setups are different, but with standard modern hardware, tweaks should be a thing of the past..i have a 4k monitor at 30Hz with vsynch enabled and that all i need...

Framerates and blurred textures are the most common triggers of OCD related behavior in the fligthsim world.  It has always been that way.  Like you, I after a few years learned to look passed it all.  It is the most futile chase in our world.  There is only one way to combat FPS and blurred textures and that's with the best hardware you can afford - with sensible settings. Any tweak mechanism is placebo, at best, and never delivers a satisfactory result to those with OCD tendencies.  

[bakerman 31]

Blurred.... Blurries.... wau Guys are we talking about P3Dv4 here or FS2004? In FS2004 there was a real Blurries problem but in P3Dv4 

2 hours ago, Peter Webber said:

Hi, since P3D v4 I have not needed to "tweak" any of my settings...I have 7700k with a 1080TI...I guess that all these "adjustments" in this thread are maybe meant for older hardware? I simply fire up and fly! All this chat is mind boggling to me. I load P3D, select my PMDG choice, and go fly..and that's it! I understand that setups are different, but with standard modern hardware, tweaks should be a thing of the past..i have a 4k monitor at 30Hz with vsynch enabled and that all i need...

Just my words.

and I have only a 6700K and a 1080 GPU

 

Bruno

Edited March 20, 2018 by bakerman

[pmb 5,137]

4 hours ago, GSalden said:

Hi Michael,

FFTF Dynamic is started manually. I start it by batchfile ( affinity set).

Thanks Gerard, this is fine.

While all these theoretical elaborations may be interesting (albeit I always take them with a grain of salt) I would enjoy more actual experiences on different systems. I am not at all chasing huge fps, I have my monitor set to 30 Hz and Prepar3d4 does run smooth and fine (to my eyes) - as long as it can keep 30 fps (VSync + TB on). This does apply most of the time like over agricultural/mildly inhabited areas, also at small airports, but not at large hubs like KLAX embedded in FTX SCA, with a lot of AI traffic. Below 30 fps it gets stuttery.

This "might" be helped by this tool.

Besides, I see autogen loading in patches over large plains with autogen radius high, which I doubt the tool will cure. Neither do I think it will help fight black buildings popping up in the distance nor blurry photo textures. (The latter being a matter of resolution coding in the scenery, as far as I understood from Beau Hollies, who, however is not always easy to understand).

Granted, I could adapt most of these annoyances by dialing back settings to low - but why did I spend the 200 $ instead of flying FSX or FSW then?

Kind regards, Michael