FFPS:FFTF question

[Cruachan 705]

1 hour ago, SteveW said:

With Locked framerate the Vsync and Triple Buffer are replaced with a different system. The back buffer frame memory is used for look-ahead frames which are built ahead of time, generally three. These frames get used up very quickly with any kind of wobble in the flow and the exact time between frames cannot be maintained. This can't go on for very long before the buffer is exhausted. The buffer might take many frames, even seconds just to get back to three ahead.

So although the system has been improved in DX11 and by LM, we must still have a very powerful system or Locked must be used sparingly on low framerates.

Hi Steve,

Could this explain the intermittent ‘juddering’ I have described or is it more likely to be caused by a competing system process?

When a locked frame rate is employed you are not going to be aware of the frame rate dropping towards and below the locked setting. When it does breach that threshold then that would be the point at which the exact time between frames cannot be maintained and the frame rate would plummet quickly thereafter. If this is the explanation then why would the frame rate recover after a short period to the locked value while those conditions (assuming it’s something to do with scenery density) precipitating the event still exist?

At present I’m inclined more towards the competing process theory and adjusting the AM may provide the answer. Won’t know until I try!

Steve, your last para might be an argument for using the FFTF Dynamic utility 😀

Regards,

Mike

 

[joepoway 241]

3 minutes ago, Cruachan said:

Hi Steve,

Could this explain the intermittent ‘juddering’ I have described or is it more likely to be caused by a competing system process?

When a locked frame rate is employed you are not going to be aware of the frame rate dropping towards and below the locked setting. When it does breach that threshold then that would be the point at which the exact time between frames cannot be maintained and the frame rate would plummet quickly thereafter. If this is the explanation then why would the frame rate recover after a short period to the locked value while those conditions (assuming it’s something do do with scenery density) precipitating the event still exist?

At present I’m inclined more towards the competing process theory and adjusting the AM may provide the answer. Won’t know until I try!

Steve, your last para might be an argument for using the FFTF Dynamic utility 😀

Regards,

Mike

 

Mike

I agree with you and that’s why I’m thinking of staying with unlimited but since it forces a value of 0.01 I might experiment with a bit higher like 0.05 and still not give up much CPU overhead. Ultimately I may try Gerard’s approach with the Dynamic utility but am not ready for yet another addon yet.

Joe

[SteveW 1,792]

13 minutes ago, Cruachan said:

Could this explain the intermittent ‘juddering’ I have described or is it more likely to be caused by a competing system process?

Hi Mike, could be. Start with the leanest setup and the fewest cores/LPs and keep an eye on things as you increase the goodness. If it's not juddering with the lowest settings it may just be something, an addon or a setting tipping it over the cliff.

Edited March 22, 2018 by SteveW

[SteveW 1,792]

...gotta run along now - back later.

[orbmis 9]

1 hour ago, joepoway said:

So that’s why I was wondering if I ran 30 FPS locked and didn’t enable Isync and TB that the video frame management might be different and not as robust in terms of any potential missing frames if my FPS dropped momentarily below 30.

 

Hi Joe,

To get a flavor of vsync/tb differences,, find a utility that shows CPU load, when in flight. Set up a 30fps locked, no vsync/Tb, and take a look at the CPU loads.

Then, set up vsync/tb on, w/unlimited, and then make note of the CPU loads in that scenario. 

If I’m right, you should see Vsync/tb on is much more efficient on the processors, leaving room for other tasks.

mike

[pmb 5,137]

24 minutes ago, joepoway said:

My original interest in this post regarding FFTF was my system runs pretty well with unlimited, TB and Vsync to maintain the 30 FPS for my 30 Hz monitor. I do however get periodic blurries and since unlimited forces FFTF=0.01 I was thinking of increasing it with the config mod to 0.05 assuming I still have enough CPU overhead to better enable terrain loading time hopefully better dealing with some occasional blurries.

I'm in a similar boat as you with a 30 Hz monitor / unlimited / VSyn on / TB on. That's really smooth - as long as I can keep the 30 fps, which I can't in very diffult environments, and then I get micro stutters. As far as I understand, the tool can't help here, but I've either to lower settings or just accept stutters.

I rarely see blurries (in my GA planes), but in a few cases like on approach to Monterey. It's better than in Prepar3d3 but still not blurry-free. I understand the tool might help here.

Two more remarks:

(i) The recipe on the FPSF site says set your target fps to 60 initially. How can we do this with our 30 Hz monitors? VSync off?

(ii) X-Plane has a nifty little tool where you set a target-fps and it just lowers LOD (and I think distant autogen) to keep that fps value. It's that simple. The tool is not 28 € but FREE. And it works. I'm all but an X-plane evangelist but sometimes I get jealous.

Kind regards, Michael 

[joepoway 241]

2 minutes ago, pmb said:

I'm in a similar boat as you with a 30 Hz monitor / unlimited / VSyn on / TB on. That's really smooth - as long as I can keep the 30 fps, which I can't in very diffult environments, and then I get micro stutters. As far as I understand, the tool can't help here, but I've either to lower settings or just accept stutters.

I rarely see blurries (in my GA planes), but in a few cases like on approach to Monterey. It's better than in Prepar3d3 but still not blurry-free. I understand the tool might help here.

Two more remarks:

(i) The recipe on the FPSF site says set your target fps to 60 initially. How can we do this with our 30 Hz monitors? VSync off?

(ii) X-Plane has a nifty little tool where you set a target-fps and it just lowers LOD (and I think distant autogen) to keep that fps value. It's that simple. The tool is not 28 € but FREE. And it works. I'm all but an X-plane evangelist but sometimes I get jealous.

Kind regards, Michael 

I agree with you about Xplane and several free utilities that can be deployed but I still love (hate at times) P3D.

I would guess the 60 Target is because the vast majority of people probably run 60 Hz monitors?

I understand the cause of stutters as well but was hoping a little bump in FFTF would be a good compromise for the blurries I see periodically and not cause more stutters obviously. 

Thanks

Joe

[Nemo 1,305]

12 minutes ago, joepoway said:

I agree with you about Xplane and several free utilities that can be deployed but I still love (hate at times) P3D.

I would guess the 60 Target is because the vast majority of people probably run 60 Hz monitors?

I understand the cause of stutters as well but was hoping a little bump in FFTF would be a good compromise for the blurries I see periodically and not cause more stutters obviously. 

Thanks

Joe

I am always wondering who can run P3Dv4 @ 60 fps in a crowded scenery (like EDDF/GES or KSEA/PNW) cloudy weather and ai traffic with a good add-on a/c?

[joepoway 241]

34 minutes ago, orbmis said:

Hi Joe,

To get a flavor of vsync/tb differences,, find a utility that shows CPU load, when in flight. Set up a 30fps locked, no vsync/Tb, and take a look at the CPU loads.

Then, set up vsync/tb on, w/unlimited, and then make note of the CPU loads in that scenario. 

If I’m right, you should see Vsync/tb on is much more efficient on the processors, leaving room for other tasks.

mike

Thanks Mike I’ve done just that as well as monitored my GPU extensively and it is more taxing then unlimited and that’s why I am now intrigued by increasing FFTF a bit.

Using Process Lasso and settings optimization with a 30Hz system has me in a pretty good place now, however I have been moving into VR lately and that’s a whole new challenge on system resources.

Joe

[Litmoose 90]

I purchased it, will do a few flights before i form an opinion

[skysurfer 76]

On 3/17/2018 at 9:36 PM, HUSSAR said:

Bonjour Gerard,

I'm really interested in this app.  I don't want to play with its settings so can I just start it and let it manage the FFTF setting?  

Greetings.

I'd like to re-quote this question, seems like it has not been answered (unless I missed it). I would like to know the answer too.

Thanks   

[lownslo 592]

7 hours ago, orbmis said:

Hi Joe,

To get a flavor of vsync/tb differences,, find a utility that shows CPU load, when in flight. Set up a 30fps locked, no vsync/Tb, and take a look at the CPU loads.

Then, set up vsync/tb on, w/unlimited, and then make note of the CPU loads in that scenario. 

If I’m right, you should see Vsync/tb on is much more efficient on the processors, leaving room for other tasks.

+1 This has been my experience as well.  Also, aside from leaving room for other tasks, running vsync/tb on w/unlimited allows additional headroom for P3Dv4 tasks too!

Greg

[GSalden 4,656]

9 hours ago, joepoway said:

I agree with you about Xplane and several free utilities that can be deployed but I still love (hate at times) P3D.

I would guess the 60 Target is because the vast majority of people probably run 60 Hz monitors?

I understand the cause of stutters as well but was hoping a little bump in FFTF would be a good compromise for the blurries I see periodically and not cause more stutters obviously. 

Thanks

Joe

A locked 60 fps is advised to see what your system is capable of regarding your max framerate at a major detailed airport. So no working Vsync. Your monitors frequency then doesn’t matter .

You won’t get 60 fps but you are able to see what your system really is capable of. Without the program running and without a FFTF entry in your cfg file you automatically use the default 0.33. That is your starting point and you can set it up like is being described here :

 

Edited March 23, 2018 by GSalden

[Dirk98 354]

How about their FFTF Live? Do you still use it, or was it waste of money? 

Thanks.

[Litmoose 90]

5 hours ago, skysurfer said:

Greetings.

I'd like to re-quote this question, seems like it has not been answered (unless I missed it). I would like to know the answer too.

Thanks   

First thing you notice is its incredibly simple to use/understand, there really are very few things you can change. First time I used it, I just started it up and left it and it worked fine