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Louis8

PAVD Valdez

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I also purchased this scenery a few months ago, along with several other ORBX's Alaska offerings - and noticed that a couple of them were quite challenging.  Flying the LDA/DME-H approach into Valdez Pioneer Field was rough the first couple of times I tried it, and although my ultimate technique only applies in meteorological conditions that allow visibility under 5K feet, it works:  Use the HUD in conjunction with the terrain guidance and simply fly down (slowly) the mouth of the Valdez Arm which turns into Shoup Bay.  The  airport will appear on the left at the end of the bay and if you're configured properly you can grease it in. 

In real life, this isn't an airfield I would try landing in at night or in foggy conditions (at my current skill level).  That mountain ridge at OLLEO isn't what usually gets me, it's the rapid decent required once clearing it.   And as someone else mentioned, the approach doesn't exactly match the runway alignment.  

The only other ORBX airport to give me such a challenge is Telluride, but again if the conditions are right you can follow the river and let it guide you to the airport.

Mark Trainer


Mark Trainer

 

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2 hours ago, mtrainer said:

The only other ORBX airport to give me such a challenge is Telluride, but again if the conditions are right you can follow the river and let it guide you to the airport.

The Orbx Sedona is just a short trip East of Vegas and an excellent afternoon cruise in the DC6.  I've taken the B736 into there but short runway on top of mesa is interesting.  The LOC/DME approach in to Aspin (KASE by Aerosoft) is the steepest descent I've flown for an instrument procedure at 6.59 deg, more suited to the JS41 than a B737 of course.


Dan Downs KCRP

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Where more or less are you fully configured Mark ,?as suggested here I'm using OLLEO and  I'm trying to get used to the Hud , i've been going to PEPPI -its a little longer flight but gives me time to get this slippery thing slowed up .


Louis Massicotte

Caroline Alberta 

 

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On ‎4‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 6:41 AM, Louis8 said:

....but gives me time to get this slippery thing slowed up .

Let's see if I can help you out, Louis.  :gaul:

First, taking a PMDG 737 into PAVD is not going to be an everyday experience.  It's doable for sure, but you will have to look at the "math" of the approach and get the airplane into a more "stable" approach configuration much earlier than normal.  Let's look at the math using the approach chart.

Note that the "overhead" view of the approach SEEMS to indicate it's 20 miles from OLLEO to "the airport".  Cool, but also misleading to a non-experienced pilot (or even some experienced ones, too).  But the "side view" on the chart shows it's only 18.6 miles to the RUNWAY.  The difference is the top view is relative to the localizer DME distance which is located BEYOND the runway.  You need to land your airplane ON the runway, so you have to "get it down" to the runway threshold in only those 18.6 miles shown on the "side" view.

Now, the crossing altitude at OLLEO is 7800 feet.  BUT your Missed Approach Point is at HORUL, 4 MILES BEFORE THE RUNWAY, at the MDA (Minimum Descent Altitude) of 4460 feet.  So, you have to lose 7800 minus 4460 equals 3340 feet altitude in 14.6 miles (OLLEO to HORUL), not the 18.6 total miles to the runway. Still, that should not be a problem at a stable aircraft configuration at a reasonable approach speed.  If you cross OLLEO at even 180 knots, you would travel (roughly) 3 miles per minute and take almost 5 minutes to travel the 14.6 miles to HORUL.  You could have less than a 1000' per minute descent rate and still do it.  But if you cross OLLEO at say 160 knots, you have even MORE time, and seeing as this is an "unconventional approach" (sorta) taking a B737 into PAVD...an airplane that IS hard to slow down quickly (as you already know)...just get configured earlier to cross OLLEO at a slower airspeed to begin with.  The descent angle of the approach is much steeper than normal all the way down to HORUL, and if you are "fast" in the B737 it will be difficult to slow it down in a way to maintain a stable approach.  NOTE that you have 8.8 miles from OLLEO to LOCIB to lose 2300 feet.  Should not be an issue if you are flying at a reasonable approach speed BEGINNING at OLLEO.  Then from LOCIB to HORUL you have ANOTHER 6 miles to lose only 1040 feet to the MDA of 4460 feet.  Again, no problem if you are ALREADY in a stable descent at a reasonable approach speed.  Then you have the additional 4 miles from HORUL (once you see the runway if you see it) to get lined up with the runway visually.  That should also not be a problem IF you are already in a stable configuration at the proper approach speed.  At HORUL you don't want to have to bleed off 30 - 40 knots airspeed for landing, so be at your landing speed with "everything hanging out" BEFORE you get there.

It's fun doing a B737 approach into PAVD.  You just gotta get the airplane "stable" at a slower speed sooner than on other "normal" approaches because of the No Procedure Turn at OLLEO, and the steeper than usual descent angle of the approach to the runway after that.  But there is plenty of Time and Distance to make it happen.  Heck, after you do it a few times in the B737, try it in the B747. It can be done in the simulator. I have several T-Shirts from THAT too. :laugh:    

What would I do in your case for now?  Fly the JOH to OLLEO approach, and get your B737 stable at 160 knots BEFORE you reach OLLEO.  You have plenty of time to do that between JOH and OLLEO.  Then the turn at OLLEO keeps you "on track" without overshooting everything, and the upcoming descent works fine all the way to the MDA at HORUL.  Just make sure you are at your FINAL approach speed and configuration BEFORE you get to HORUL too (final approach configuration with "everything hanging out" at HORUL).  When you do that, you don't have to mess with anything else other than hand-flying the remaining "visual approach" to the runway.

 

 

Edited by FalconAF

Rick Ryan

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Thanks Ryan and everyone else ,man she is a trip this one . I was high at Olleo , sloppy but got it in,need more practice . My young lad is Captain on one of these but it's always a fight for him to show me anything so i just come here now when i'm stuck.


Louis Massicotte

Caroline Alberta 

 

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The NGX is a slippery thing for sure. When at flight idle I hit F1 as a habit now as its well known that throttle controllers can be iffy


Len  Carne

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