Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Luke said:

Actually, it does. The terminated program was the one that made the bad call.

Cheers!

Boom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

3 hours ago, Luke said:

Actually, it does. The terminated program was the one that made the bad call.

Cheers!

I agree and its clearly stated here by Microsoft.

DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_HUNG
0x887A0006
The application's device failed due to badly formed commands sent by the application. This is an design-time issue that should be investigated and fixed.
 
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/direct3ddxgi/dxgi-error
 
The fact that some other games have these crashes is not an excuse that its some other factor..it means those games have a fault or conflict with certain hardware and should also be addressed just as Lockheed Martin should at least acknowledge there IS an issue.
 
Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Luke said:

Actually, it does. The terminated program was the one that made the bad call.

Cheers!

This is incorrect and you know it Luke.  Where does it state in the error report, the event viewer, the AppCrashView report that P3D was at fault?  It shows a faulting module which only provides a clue as to why the running application was shutdown with an error.  This faulty module indicates an incompatibility with the system or the add-on is NOT compatible with P3DV4 and the person needs to remove the offensive add-on and go to the developer and tell them his/her product "is not compatible with P3DV4 as an error was thrown." "If I remove your aircraft (or scenery, as applicable), the error goes away.  Can you work with the LM team and see if you can make your application compatible?"  So stop blaming LM and start blaming the member's computer system or an add-on.  You are only confusing the situation.

I remember when Carenado aircraft were causing problems in P3DV3 and earlier and members went to Carenado and asked for help.  Carenado responded that they talked to the LM techs and a fix was going to be in the next update (and it was). As you know, some Carenado aircraft were included with the P3D packages so LM's fault.

1 hour ago, cj-ibbotson said:

I agree and its clearly stated here by Microsoft.

DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_HUNG
0x887A0006
The application's device failed due to badly formed commands sent by the application. This is an design-time issue that should be investigated and fixed.
 
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/direct3ddxgi/dxgi-error
 
The fact that some other games have these crashes is not an excuse that its some other factor..it means those games have a fault or conflict with certain hardware and should also be addressed just as Lockheed Martin should at least acknowledge there IS an issue.
 
Chris

This information is used by the developer (LM) if his application is causing this error when the product is finished and ready for release.  Did you know that add-on developers who install airport scenery and aircraft have installers that install the application into P3D?  LM did not see this error after extensive beta testing so released P3DV4 with 3 subsequent updates to v4.3 (bug fixes).  I know they did test their product with some other add-ons too, like ActiveSky, FSDT stuff, etc.  If you run P3DV4 with default settings and default scenery, you should not see this error unless you have a bad OC of your CPU or GPU.  Again, it would definitely be LM's issue if everyone who has P3DV4 installed and received the DXGI error and they clearly are not getting this error. 

AVSIM has a Prepar3D forum for AVSIM members and it is in no way connected to LM's website or forums.  This is not their official forum to report issues with P3D.

If you seriously think this is a LM issue that needs to be fixed for everyone who owns P3DV4, then you should send them a bug report or report the issue in the appropriate forum at LM (I'm positive they already are aware of the error some are receiving).  Many of our members, including me, have posted fixes for this error in this topic and other topics in the AVSIM CTD Forum.  If you cannot find the fix then LM techs would need to replicate your crash so you would need to provide them with info on your P3D/Scenery config settings, the dll.xml, a copy of the DXDIAG report (located in the same folder as the P3D.cfg) and system settings and system specs.  If you have any aircraft, AI program, or add-on scenery installed, you would have to let them know but it is best to make sure all of those programs are uninstalled and you are only getting the error with default settings and installation.  If they cannot replicate it with all of this information, then it is not their issue.  It might be that an add-on aircraft, AI program, or add-on scenery is the culprit but think you have stated you have a virgin install of P3DV4 with no add-ons.  I have already stated many times it is a bad overclock of your GPU or CPU.

I think LM has a debug program they want everyone to run when receiving errors and provide this report to them.  This may be all you would need to complete.  I hope you have already done this at the LM site.

P3D, like FSX, does not use the GPU very much as the application uses as many resources as possible from the CPU.  It would be nice if they would somehow program P3D to use the resources of the GPU but their application is based off of Microsoft's FSX and Microsoft continues to restrict changes to their license agreement.  I do not know if LM has gotten permission to reprogram a lot of functions used in the P3D application.  I'm sure they are trying to stay within the parameters of the Microsoft License Agreement as they should.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Jim, let me disagree with you not because I am an IT Pro but just because that's crystal clear that if my own pc runs like a charm since 1 year ago whatever game thrown at it at 4k 60fps but P3D, that clearly narrows down to P3D and its addons only.

One fact should convice the skeptical ones, disabling the vast majority of up to date P3D addons ( which btw always worked fine in P3D since 2-3 years.... ) and flying the very same plane at the very same airport with the very same weather etc... during night, the chance of CTD increases by 800% vs daytime.

Now, which add on in your opinion is sensible to the night time ?  Only P3D !  

P3D, despite its 64 bits tweaks, still relays on a 15 years old ancient manipulated code, that's the explanation.

Of course whatever regedit tweaks, drivers & bios update, downclock etc didn't work and I have played at least 12-15 games at full details in 2018 at 4K without a single crash in one year............

 

No need to add anything, the murderer still has the smoking gun in its hand and you still defend him ???

 

-

Edited by Mark II

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jim,

Instead of defending P3D, why don't you help us help them. You said it yourself, they are very receptive. There is no need to put up such a boundary to users having this issue; especially if they are as receptive as you say. You are a moderator for the avsim forum.... not a spokesperson for Lockheed Martin. 

Sticky this topic. Pin it. Whatever but don't keep saying we are wrong. You aren't helping with posts like that. Just be thankful you don't have this issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Jim Young said:

This is incorrect and you know it Luke.  Where does it state in the error report, the event viewer, the AppCrashView report that P3D was at fault?  It shows a faulting module which only provides a clue as to why the running application was shutdown with an error.  This faulty module indicates an incompatibility with the system or the add-on is NOT compatible with P3DV4 and the person needs to remove the offensive add-on and go to the developer and tell them his/her product "is not compatible with P3DV4 as an error was thrown." "If I remove your aircraft (or scenery, as applicable), the error goes away.  Can you work with the LM team and see if you can make your application compatible?"  So stop blaming LM and start blaming the member's computer system or an add-on.  You are only confusing the situation.

When I get a DXGI ERROR DEVICE HUNG crash there is no mention of a faulting module in Event Viewer.  I have run tests on an entirely default sim which means there is NO incompatible add ons.  The fact this happens means that add ons themselves do not cause the crash.  After trying everything to fix it I finally succumbed and pleaded for help, on 1st September, on LM's Forums detailing everything I had tested up to thaty moment.  Did I get support from LM? Did I heck.  The only comment I got was that they were amalgamating my post into another older post and buried it under their hardware section! Since posting it there has been many other comments but NONE from LM.  Have they asked for error reports? Have they asked if I go through the standard debugging guides they link others to when they report a fault..nope nothing.

11 hours ago, Jim Young said:

This information is used by the developer (LM) if his application is causing this error when the product is finished and ready for release.  Did you know that add-on developers who install airport scenery and aircraft have installers that install the application into P3D?  LM did not see this error after extensive beta testing so released P3DV4 with 3 subsequent updates to v4.3 (bug fixes).  I know they did test their product with some other add-ons too, like ActiveSky, FSDT stuff, etc.  If you run P3DV4 with default settings and default scenery, you should not see this error unless you have a bad OC of your CPU or GPU.  Again, it would definitely be LM's issue if everyone who has P3DV4 installed and received the DXGI error and they clearly are not getting this error. 

When I get the DXGI crash this item appears in my 'System' part of Event Viewer..."Application Prepar3D.exe has been blocked from accessing Graphics hardware."

Like I've said many times I have got this crash on a default installation, I have also got it on default cpu clock speeds and an underclocked gpu.  These crashes are listed on LM Forums dating back to v3.2 or 3.3 approx.  To say there isn't a problem that needs fixing is like saying there is no such thing as cancer because you dont have experience it.

12 hours ago, Jim Young said:

If you seriously think this is a LM issue that needs to be fixed for everyone who owns P3DV4, then you should send them a bug report or report the issue in the appropriate forum at LM (I'm positive they already are aware of the error some are receiving).  Many of our members, including me, have posted fixes for this error in this topic and other topics in the AVSIM CTD Forum.  If you cannot find the fix then LM techs would need to replicate your crash so you would need to provide them with info on your P3D/Scenery config settings, the dll.xml, a copy of the DXDIAG report (located in the same folder as the P3D.cfg) and system settings and system specs.  If you have any aircraft, AI program, or add-on scenery installed, you would have to let them know but it is best to make sure all of those programs are uninstalled and you are only getting the error with default settings and installation.  If they cannot replicate it with all of this information, then it is not their issue.  It might be that an add-on aircraft, AI program, or add-on scenery is the culprit but think you have stated you have a virgin install of P3DV4 with no add-ons.  I have already stated many times it is a bad overclock of your GPU or CPU.

I tried asking for help and Lockheed Martin ignored both my post and the many other contributors having these crashes.  The crash is entirely random, happens mostly at dusk / night / dawn on test flights.  Cant be replicated as could take 5 mins to 10 plus hours to occur.  Even sitting still on the runway during tests can trigger it..again in default aircraft, default settings, default sim.  To get support LM request sim is current build, all drivers are up to date, windows updates fully installed...all this has been tested and didnt help.  Again it is wrong to state our crashes are due to a bad overclock, any numpty who is having crashes will know to remove all overclocks and try again..if it crashes then the overclock you previously had is not the cause.

 

Just to finish off here is a comment from one hour ago TODAY on Facebook's Group "P3D V3 & V4" https://www.facebook.com/groups/p3dgroup/?ref=nf_target&fref=nf

"Just now My prepar crash after 3 hrs of flight, DXGI ERROR again, this is imposible, and maddening, i tryyy allll, 70% reduction power of gpu, all....all the tweeks, is imposible...."

For as long as people bury their heads in the sand and blame user error or hardware then this issue will continue and believe you me, gauging by the Facebook Groups Im a member of, it is getting more and more frequent.

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, garymcginnis said:

Jim,

Instead of defending P3D, why don't you help us help them. You said it yourself, they are very receptive. There is no need to put up such a boundary to users having this issue; especially if they are as receptive as you say. You are a moderator for the avsim forum.... not a spokesperson for Lockheed Martin. 

Sticky this topic. Pin it. Whatever but don't keep saying we are wrong. You aren't helping with posts like that. Just be thankful you don't have this issue.

Like Jim says this isnt LM and to be honest I wasn't expecting any help whatsoever here.  Whilst Avsim may be the biggest forum online it is just one of many.  I am just gutted that LM refused to offer any help.  Some say they wont help because they are a defence contractor, and not interested in a few hundred poxy users having crashes, but I would believe that Prepar3D is developed by an entirely different team within LM who work solely on software development.

Think I'll be switching notifcations off for this thread soon as Im just finding it too frustrating.  Reducing the Power Limit to 75% has helped me a lot but as I added to my previous comment isnt helping everyone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

First of all, you are all correct... I do support and back Lockheed Martin.  I am really happy they decided to hire several techs to further develop Microsoft ESP and provide us with continued entertainment and learning experiences as FSX was never going to be upgraded.  With the new Microsoft ESP engine, they are able to further develop this product for a long time into the future.

1 hour ago, cj-ibbotson said:

When I get the DXGI crash this item appears in my 'System' part of Event Viewer..."Application Prepar3D.exe has been blocked from accessing Graphics hardware."

While doing a search for this crash message above, I saw that some using X-Plane also received the message above and scrolling down through the topic, it shows they reduced some settings in the software program that usually comes with their GPU (mine is ASUS Tweak II) and that fixed most of the issues if not all - https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/118717-x-plane-has-been-blocked-from-accessing-the-graphics-card/ .  So, maybe we need to go to Laminar Research and get them to reprogram their simulator too? Just saying. If there is an overclocking mode, that should be sufficient for P3Dv4 gaming.  Manually changing any of the settings is not recommended unless you know exactly what you are doing.  I am not sure why anyone would want a higher powered or overclock than what is recommended by the various modes that come with the tweaking software.  The GPU is not going to make P3D look any better or give you faster fps.  That is in the CPU and the cores.  Anything over 30 fps is considered excellent.  Turn off hyper-threading and you will eliminate most of the blurries.  I do not think the blurries can ever be totally eliminated by any GPU even at any max overclock but turning off hyper-threading is the best solution today.

If anything, I think you should be going to the manufacturer of your GPU or visit their forums and ask why you cannot power your GPU higher than the default settings.

Since I've already offered by input into how to fix this problem, I am not going to respond anymore as I just seem to be aggravating everyone whenever I do.  I also have a lot of things to do.  I would like to say though that I enjoyed our conversations as you all kept them polite and that is appreciated especially when you are all very frustrated when you get this error.  You should have seen me pulling my hair and pounding my fist when I was getting random BSOD's and CTD's after building my current system the past two or three months.  And the errors only occurred when running P3DV4 as the sim uses a lot of resources especially with a lot of eye-candy add-ons.  Good luck to you all in finding a resolution.

Best regards,

Jim

 

Edited by Jim Young
Added the link to X-Plane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I support them as well. Saying there is an error with the program in no way means I (we) don't. It's just bull about the silence from them.

Edited by garymcginnis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CJ

I feel your pain and frustration. I haven’t experienced this issue directly but a friend of mine is randomly experiencing it. It appears from reading your posts you have tried virtually everything in a very methodical manner.

After reading the Xplane link above for this similar issue a thought came to mind. I notice that a reduced power setting of 75% seems to work pretty well for you, not sure if 100%, but that clearly leaves performance on the table. Have you tried increasing the voltage slightly to you video card? Perhaps for whatever reason even in a default clean P3D setup with no GPU overclock your card has insufficient voltage to remain stable. I have clearly seen this on many PC builds regarding CPUs. I understand it happens when you aren’t running any overclock on your GPU but maybe yours is a borderline case. I have an i5-2500K that needs way more voltage than it should to perform well and as long as I keep it cool with my water cooled system all is good.

Just a thought and if you try it obviously just bump up your fan profile and watch the temperatures.

Good luck to you and I’m pulling for your success!

Joe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just got my first one... however I believe I may have tracked it to SODE (i think) ...only time will tell...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, UAL4life said:

I just got my first one... however I believe I may have tracked it to SODE (i think) ...only time will tell...

Hate to say but its probably not. I had crashes before I installed SODE.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, joepoway said:

CJ

I feel your pain and frustration. I haven’t experienced this issue directly but a friend of mine is randomly experiencing it. It appears from reading your posts you have tried virtually everything in a very methodical manner.

After reading the Xplane link above for this similar issue a thought came to mind. I notice that a reduced power setting of 75% seems to work pretty well for you, not sure if 100%, but that clearly leaves performance on the table. Have you tried increasing the voltage slightly to you video card? Perhaps for whatever reason even in a default clean P3D setup with no GPU overclock your card has insufficient voltage to remain stable. I have clearly seen this on many PC builds regarding CPUs. I understand it happens when you aren’t running any overclock on your GPU but maybe yours is a borderline case. I have an i5-2500K that needs way more voltage than it should to perform well and as long as I keep it cool with my water cooled system all is good.

Just a thought and if you try it obviously just bump up your fan profile and watch the temperatures.

Good luck to you and I’m pulling for your success!

Joe

Hi Joe I've tried loads of combinations. All GPU settings on default eg core and memory speeds, power limit and voltage all default..SIM crashes. Reducing core and memory clock speeds by 100 MHz or more.. SIM crashes. Returning clock speeds to default and reducing Power Limit to 75% SIM is lot more stable. Keeping power limit at 75 and bump voltage up crash returns.

 

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now