ErichB

Xplane and my simming future

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I also do not have much to complaint about the weather in XP. Currently I am using FSGRW, which allows dynamic or static weather scenarios. In VR the clouds look very good and do not turn around with your head like in P3D4.2 with ActiveSky. 

Of course it can improve, but some here make it sound like the weather system in XP is as bad as in AF2.

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12 hours ago, Glenn_C said:

You can get X-Plane to download real world weather then just call up the metar of your destination and that's it. That is usually quite accurate, I use http://en.allmetsat.com. People know the weather is not perfect when they purchase I would hope. Buying something these days especially for flight simulation without reading reviews etc is just asking to get burned. There are enough add-ons that are not worth a dime that sell for a hefty price. The best thing I can say to people who want a 'perfect' weather system in their flight sim is go buy P3D and Active Sky, X-Plane at the moment is not for you.

Please focus on the second paragraph of my reply. I am not totally happy with X-Plane weather but on the other hand I dont know much about the weather to be honest. What I am not happy about is xEnviro. Paying that much money to a weather software and then having to go to web to see the weather at your destination is I dont know what if not absurd. Not to mention historical or custom weather. And reviews? I did read them believe me and they all say it is "perfect".

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21 hours ago, ErichB said:

It's a 'wow factor' visual experience sim on an extremely limited scale. which puts it way off my (and others) radar for further consideration.  

Have to agree. I mainly used AFS2 for the extremely good performance (it's really magic to fly with fps >100 constantly, no matter what: you really have to experience this to appreciate the difference it makes) and the photoreal scenery (which is far from perfect (rather empty) but a nice diversion from landclass scenery). But now that Orbx is releasing TrueEarth the only reason left to use AFS2 is performance... and there is a LOT more to simming than just performance. :happy:

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1 hour ago, costamesa said:

I did read them believe me and they all say it is "perfect".

Presumably written by people who have no meteorological knowledge and who have never flown an aircraft before.  There's a huge surprise

The fundamental issue is not the 3rd party apps themselves - most of them do the best they can with what they have to work with.  LR has to provide more tools for developers to make weather functionality work properly for an airline based sim environment.  Weather experiences will never improve until that happens.

LM only did that in the last few years,  AS now provides a great experience coupled with RSF.

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3 hours ago, J van E said:

 (it's really magic to fly with fps >100 constantly, no matter what: you really have to experience this to appreciate the difference it makes) and the photoreal scenery (which is far from perfect (rather empty) but a nice diversion from landclass scenery).

And now ... think  about it ... where does that magical FPS come from :smile:?

My simple magic: there is no such thing as free beer .... You always have to pay one way or another. Even with our fastest GPUs you still have to decide between eye candy or FPS ... (to some degree ... and depending on your poreferences).

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9 hours ago, jcomm said:

Which woman is perfect ?  Mine :-)

:laugh::laugh:

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I'm honestly stunned anyone finds the current XP weather "good enough".

It's awful guys.  C'mon now..

We all love XP, but let's call a spade a spade here..

Both the ATC and Weather situation are way short of where I think one could reasonably hope they'd be in 2018.

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20 hours ago, CarlosF said:

True, but keep in mind that most sims if not all, just don't do well in this arena, you have to purchase an addon.

For me, xEnviro meets my needs and eventually with the latest 1.08 update coming soon, should look/handle weather even better.

 

 

Seriously considering giving it a fair try... But it's a bit too expensive :-/

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, alpilotx said:

And now ... think  about it ... where does that magical FPS come from :smile:?

My simple magic: there is no such thing as free beer .... You always have to pay one way or another. Even with our fastest GPUs you still have to decide between eye candy or FPS ... (to some degree ... and depending on your poreferences).

That 'magical' FPS comes from a new and modern graphic system. Simple as that. There is no magic here. It's simple logic. Where did you think it came from? With AFS2 I do not have to choose between eye candy and FPS, not even in the Q400 (which is pretty advanced for a default plane) and a very detailed area as Orbx LOWI. I have all graphic sliders on ultra and performance refuses to dip below 100 (when I am not using vsync). (I will check my FPS the next time without vsync.) Yes, I do have a 1080 (no Ti) but my CPU and the rest of my PC is almost 4 years old. In XP and P3D I can't even get the performance I get in AFS2 when I set all sliders fully left. Of course AFS2 is lacking a lot of features (there is a reason why P3D is my main sim) but the headroom it has is gigantic.

EDIT
Just checked: here are some screenshots taken while flying the Q400 over Orbx LOWI/Innsbruck. The fps is in the lower right corner. (Screenshots are posted as links because I don't want to pollute the XP forum with AFS2 screenshots. :happy: ) Anyway, as I said, lots of heardoom still. Try this in P3D. :cool:

http://www.fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2018/04/05/20180404192127_1.jpg
http://www.fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2018/04/05/20180404192242_1.jpg
http://www.fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2018/04/05/20180404192615_1.jpg
http://www.fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2018/04/05/20180404192248_1.jpg

Edited by J van E

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1 hour ago, irrics said:

I'm honestly stunned anyone finds the current XP weather "good enough".

It's awful guys.  C'mon now..

We all love XP, but let's call a spade a spade here..

Both the ATC and Weather situation are way short of where I think one could reasonably hope they'd be in 2018.

I agree with you about ATC, but for VFR, the weather is more then adequate, and has not those awfull rotating sprites you see in the "other" sim.

Some add-ons try to mimic that and call it super realistic.  I don't buy it! They are awfull! 

 

Clouds are volumetric, not flat bitmaps.

Clouds, you fly through, it is not some nice painting on a blue wall far away.

Clouds have all kind of shades, they are not pristine white. 

 

I never liked clouds in FSX, most of the time, I turned them off. I could not stand seeing them rotate to face me all the time. Also you could see the paper thin bitmaps while flying through them. 

X-Plane at least makes an attempt to make nice, fluffy, volumetric, clouds. Could it be better ? Yes, for example towering cumulus would be a nice addition. But otherwise, they are a big improvement.

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20 hours ago, CarlosF said:

True, but keep in mind that most sims if not all, just don't do well in this arena, you have to purchase an addon.

For me, xEnviro meets my needs and eventually with the latest 1.08 update coming soon, should look/handle weather even better.

 

 

Seriously considering giving it a fair try... But it's a bit too expensive :-/

 

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20 hours ago, CarlosF said:

True, but keep in mind that most sims if not all, just don't do well in this arena, you have to purchase an addon.

For me, xEnviro meets my needs and eventually with the latest 1.08 update coming soon, should look/handle weather even better.

 

 

Seriously considering giving it a fair try... But it's a bit too expensive :-/

 

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10 minutes ago, jh71 said:

I agree with you about ATC, but for VFR, the weather is more then adequate, and has not those awfull rotating sprites you see in the "other" sim.

 

I think why we are at different levels of satisfaction is that I don't even consider FSX/P3D in this comparison.

 

I consider XP to be on a different level all together and, fair or not, I'm comparing real world weather and experiences with XP and that's where my continual extreme disappointment comes in.

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17 minutes ago, irrics said:

 

I think why we are at different levels of satisfaction is that I don't even consider FSX/P3D in this comparison.

 

I consider XP to be on a different level all together and, fair or not, I'm comparing real world weather and experiences with XP and that's where my continual extreme disappointment comes in.

ok, in that case, I agree with you. Most people that complain about XP weather, compare it with FSX, and think that is the holy grail. I only assumed you did too.

I am afraid nothing comes close to real flying through real air. If you search that in a desktop sim, I am afraid you will always be disappointed and will become the second uninstaller on this forum.

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27 minutes ago, J van E said:

That 'magical' FPS comes from a new and modern graphic system. Simple as that. There is no magic here. It's simple logic.

In XP and P3D I can't even get the performance I get in AFS2 when I set all sliders fully left.

AFS2 is still lacking many visual effects:

.) Global lighting (necessitating deferred rendering); it doesn't even have landing lights;

.) Water waves (and water reflections);

.) Terrain self-shadowing;

.) Atmospheric scattering.

All of these effects remain active in XP even with all sliders to the left.

Neverthless, IPACS did a wonderful job in maximizing the "visual return" in common flight situations, even if the rendering engine lacks those effects. All those limitations become more evident for example when the sun is low (no terrain shadowing), over water, at sunset/night (no lights), at high altitude (no scattering), etc.

Now, my subjective opinion is that, even if IPACS would implement all of these effects, AFS2 would probably still have a performance advantage, because max performance has always been their first priority. It's just that the headroom it appears to have, is actually smaller than it seems, even if it's still probably there. Especially considering that the switch of XP to Vulkan should improve its performance.

 

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On 2018-04-03 at 5:43 PM, costamesa said:

Is it fixed? No. So, people will keep on talking. people paid money for this.

Not all the problems of xenviro are related to LR. No option for custom or historical weather or no option for a flight plan. A weather software without these options are like a flight simulation with no "sufficient" weather model. Come on you dont even get to see destination airport weather data until you get close enough.

Why don't use Little Navigator Map? Here you have a fantastic tool, including moving maps, easy to make flightplans including sid/start, weather from NOAA, all kinds of info regarding com, airways, airport facts and so fort. Flightplans can be exported to more or less all kind of aircraft in X-plane and is represented in Navigraph for updating AIRACS. And it will show you top of descent if you are flying GA.

You can check the weather at destination even before take off.

The best thing?: IT IS FREE!

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1 hour ago, irrics said:

 

I think why we are at different levels of satisfaction is that I don't even consider FSX/P3D in this comparison.

 

I consider XP to be on a different level all together and, fair or not, I'm comparing real world weather and experiences with XP and that's where my continual extreme disappointment comes in.

It's interesting to see people comparing old FSX or P3D with addons for hundreds or more dollars with vanilla X-Plane. FSX weather in vanilla mode is horrible and for a while a couple of years ago, you could not even get online weather since the servers was broken for a long period of time.

I have done the step over to X-plane about a year ago, and I'm not looking back. I had well over 1000 dollars of addons worth, but was fed up with microstutters and cartoon ground colors. And the absolutely flat runways...

There are tons of freeware from gifted users in X-Plane and the only thing I've invested in is xEnviro and Aerobasks fleet of GA plus FF A320 U. Zibo B737 is for free. And not far from PMDG's B737.

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2 hours ago, Murmur said:

Especially considering that the switch of XP to Vulkan should improve its performance.

This I am very interested in...!

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Didn't they fix the ability to see ground lights when you're in imc in xp?  I feel like I can still see lights through overcast.  Although some times you can in real life if it's a thin layer.

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Lights are still showing through the clouds for me. I hope xEnviro 1.08 fixes this as it's a bit of an immersion killer for flying at night in IMC.

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14 hours ago, jh71 said:

ok, in that case, I agree with you. Most people that complain about XP weather, compare it with FSX,

XP11 cannot - and should not - be compared with FSX. 

P3D is the appropriate comparison benchmark with regards the latest developments in 3rd party weather capability and visuals.  

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, janbergwall01 said:

I have done the step over to X-plane about a year ago, and I'm not looking back. I had well over 1000 dollars of addons worth, but was fed up with microstutters and cartoon ground colors.

I'm with you. I just checked my Simmarket account, and I have 1800 EUR worth of FSX/P3D addons purchased there, plus some PMDG planes (two of them twice for FSX and P3D) and several purchases at ORBX and other stores.

Let's say I spent about 2500 EUR on FSX/P3D addons, and I didn't touch either sim since switching to X-Plane 10 (and now 11).

OT: I never understood the criticism for XP10's user interface. I still like it way more than XP11's (apart from the nicer optics of course) and it was largely due to the fact that XP10 was so much easier to set up for good performance and nice visuals at the same time, which made the switch a no-brainer for me.

Edited by mgeiss
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8 minutes ago, mgeiss said:

I never understood the criticism for XP10's user interface. I still like it way more than XP11's

100% agree with this. I dislike the UI in XP11, it just gets in the way. It's now harder to get to settings, start a new flight, etc. They took away a lot of settings (e.g. Reducing traffic or tree density) etc. It looks nice, no doubt about it, but just like Windows 8 and 10, it took away the simplicity and usability of Windows 7 :)

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35 minutes ago, ErichB said:

P3D is the appropriate comparison benchmark with regards the latest developments in 3rd party weather capability and visuals. 

you said it: you are comparing X-Plane with 3rd party weather in the other sim. This is comparing apples with oranges. Also does P3D still use flat bitmaps ? From screenshots I see, I believe it does. 

To each its own, some like sharp bitmaps, I prefer 3D clouds where you can really surf the clouds. Also weather is much more then the depiction of clouds.

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3 minutes ago, jh71 said:

you are comparing X-Plane with 3rd party weather in the other sim.

No, I am comparing the capabilities of third party weather software in Xplane 11 to third party weather capability in P3D.  Like for like.

 

5 minutes ago, jh71 said:

Also does P3D still use flat bitmaps ? From screenshots I see, I believe it does. 

It does.  But, as you've said.  There is alot more to weather than the visuals - and that's been my point all along.

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