Xplane and my simming future

[ErichB 3,642]

14 hours ago, jh71 said:

ok, in that case, I agree with you. Most people that complain about XP weather, compare it with FSX,

XP11 cannot - and should not - be compared with FSX. 

P3D is the appropriate comparison benchmark with regards the latest developments in 3rd party weather capability and visuals.  

[Guest-475 81]

13 hours ago, janbergwall01 said:

I have done the step over to X-plane about a year ago, and I'm not looking back. I had well over 1000 dollars of addons worth, but was fed up with microstutters and cartoon ground colors.

I'm with you. I just checked my Simmarket account, and I have 1800 EUR worth of FSX/P3D addons purchased there, plus some PMDG planes (two of them twice for FSX and P3D) and several purchases at ORBX and other stores.

Let's say I spent about 2500 EUR on FSX/P3D addons, and I didn't touch either sim since switching to X-Plane 10 (and now 11).

OT: I never understood the criticism for XP10's user interface. I still like it way more than XP11's (apart from the nicer optics of course) and it was largely due to the fact that XP10 was so much easier to set up for good performance and nice visuals at the same time, which made the switch a no-brainer for me.

Edited April 5, 2018 by mgeiss

[tonywob 4,769]

8 minutes ago, mgeiss said:

I never understood the criticism for XP10's user interface. I still like it way more than XP11's

100% agree with this. I dislike the UI in XP11, it just gets in the way. It's now harder to get to settings, start a new flight, etc. They took away a lot of settings (e.g. Reducing traffic or tree density) etc. It looks nice, no doubt about it, but just like Windows 8 and 10, it took away the simplicity and usability of Windows 7 :)

[soaring_penguin 428]

35 minutes ago, ErichB said:

P3D is the appropriate comparison benchmark with regards the latest developments in 3rd party weather capability and visuals. 

you said it: you are comparing X-Plane with 3rd party weather in the other sim. This is comparing apples with oranges. Also does P3D still use flat bitmaps ? From screenshots I see, I believe it does. 

To each its own, some like sharp bitmaps, I prefer 3D clouds where you can really surf the clouds. Also weather is much more then the depiction of clouds.

[ErichB 3,642]

3 minutes ago, jh71 said:

you are comparing X-Plane with 3rd party weather in the other sim.

No, I am comparing the capabilities of third party weather software in Xplane 11 to third party weather capability in P3D.  Like for like.

 

5 minutes ago, jh71 said:

Also does P3D still use flat bitmaps ? From screenshots I see, I believe it does. 

It does.  But, as you've said.  There is alot more to weather than the visuals - and that's been my point all along.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, jh71 said:

you said it: you are comparing X-Plane with 3rd party weather in the other sim. This is comparing apples with oranges. Also does P3D still use flat bitmaps ? From screenshots I see, I believe it does. 

To each its own, some like sharp bitmaps, I prefer 3D clouds where you can really surf the clouds. Also weather is much more then the depiction of clouds.

Er... afaik XP (X-Enviro) also uses bitmaps...? Or did I miss the introduction of real 3D clouds in XP? 

 

15 hours ago, janbergwall01 said:

and cartoon ground colors

Is that default or addon or...? It seems to me at least the Orbx addons (when looking at screenshots and video's) look the same for P3D and XP when it comes to colors. 

 

[tonywob 4,769]

23 minutes ago, J van E said:

It seems to me at least the Orbx addons (when looking at screenshots and video's) look the same for P3D and XP when it comes to colors. 

ORBX sceneries have a specific colour palette so everything is consistent, airports blend in, and it works with other regions, global etc. However, both sims treat colours differently, especially X-Plane. If you add a very bright blue sky and set it to midday in X-Plane (using xEnviro or some addon), then the colour palettes for the orthos look pretty similar between the two sims, but that all really changes a lot when you add in clouds, change the time of day, etc.. whereas in P3D the colours stay somewhat consistent. 

A lot of people in X-Plane use various plugins such as reshade to oversaturate everything because the default sim is so dull. It's possible to recolour X-Plane so it looks like P3D scenery, but I don't think it's possible the other way round.

[ErichB 3,642]

8 minutes ago, tonywob said:

It's possible to recolour X-Plane so it looks like P3D scenery, but I don't think it's possible the other way round.

With PTA  it is possible to make P3D look as dull and washed out or as colour saturated as you like.  The same when adding cloud shade or different times of day. With the various plugin's available, there really is no difference in what you can achieve in that sense between the two sims anymore . It is for all intents and purposes, a current day, non-issue.

I think the race is now about functionality, real atmospherics and physics - and most importantly, who provides better tools to allow developers across the board to make the simming experience better.

[Murmur 3,941]

1 hour ago, J van E said:

Er... afaik XP (X-Enviro) also uses bitmaps...? Or did I miss the introduction of real 3D clouds in XP?

I think default XP uses a somewhat different technique from FSX/P3D for cloud depiction. The latter uses a small number of very big sprites as "sheets" to form the cloud shape, whereas default XP uses a very large number of small sprites as "puffs" to form the cloud.

For this reason, while both sims use 2D sprites, the rotation of the sprites is more noticeable in FSX/P3D, because you have a very large sprite with a well defined shape doing a very large rotation, while in XP you have small, less defined sprites doing "small" rotations.

However, there are cloud mods for XP that increase the size of cloud sprites, producing better looking clouds, but also making more evident their rotations when changing the point of view.

I don't have X-Enviro, but from past videos I watched, it seemingly uses big 2D sprites that rotate unrealistically in some situations. I don't know if the current version solved this issue.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, tonywob said:

A lot of people in X-Plane use various plugins such as reshade to oversaturate everything because the default sim is so dull.

Okay, well, LOL, as usual it's very personal: some say P3D looks cartoonish while others say XP looks dull... In the end it comes down to the same  and everything can be 'edited' on the fly with plugins and addons.

 

40 minutes ago, Murmur said:

For this reason, while both sims use 2D sprites

Thanks for the information. What's clear now anyway is that jh71 was mistaken when he said XP has 3D clouds. 

[soaring_penguin 428]

33 minutes ago, J van E said:

Okay, well, LOL, as usual it's very personal: some say P3D looks cartoonish while others say XP looks dull... In the end it comes down to the same  and everything can be 'edited' on the fly with plugins and addons.

 

Thanks for the information. What's clear now anyway is that jh71 was mistaken when he said XP has 3D clouds. 

Well, the end result is clearly more volumetric, while the other is obvious a flat rotating image. To each it's own.

[Paraffin 2,197]

3 hours ago, J van E said:

Er... afaik XP (X-Enviro) also uses bitmaps...? Or did I miss the introduction of real 3D clouds in XP? 

I'm not sure about default clouds, but SkyMaxx Pro has had 3D clouds for a while now.

Actually it's probably a mix of volumetric 3D close up, and what they call "dynamically generated imposters" (i.e. 2D) in the distance to keep frame rates higher. Anyway, it certainly looks 3D when flying through clouds, including the way they cast shadows on the ground.

I know SkyMaxx Pro isn't everyone's cup of tea, especially at higher altitudes (where I don't fly). Personally, I like the way SkyMaxx's low level clouds blend with mountain terrain. It's the most realistic look I've found for the kind of bush plane and helicopter flying I enjoy in XP. At least until we get internal weather engine improvements some day from Laminar.

 

2 hours ago, tonywob said:

A lot of people in X-Plane use various plugins such as reshade to oversaturate everything because the default sim is so dull. It's possible to recolour X-Plane so it looks like P3D scenery, but I don't think it's possible the other way round.

Part of X-Plane's "dull" look is the color palette, but the other part is the haze effect, which is overdone in my opinion.

I'm sure you know this, but as info for others, it's possible to use LUA scripts to knock back the haze without using any palette or saturation adjustments. I don't like overly saturated colors with other adjustments, so just reducing the haze looks the most realistic to me.

[Sirxamoc 22]

As an avid flight simmer who touted Prepar3D ver 1 over FSX and SE, I have come to stark realization that I really like X-Plane!  When Version 11 came out I  was not that impressed, but after hearing some of my friends tell me to check it out just recently, I reloaded and can say that I am now very impressed.  The one thing I noted right off the bat was that I was able to set up my Logitech X-56 controls along with my Saitek rudder in just a few short minutes without having to revert to FSUIPC. Load time and FPS - Awesome, Plugins and the availability of free quality plugins I wish P3D could do.

X-Plane 11 I am going to start leaning more on and weaning myself off P3D.  Why you may ask? Simple, even though X-Plane does not have the 3rd Party developers like FSX or P3D, Research is doing a pretty damn good job and I think after looking at other sources its add ons will only become more available.

Things I would like to see in 3rd Party as soon as possible:

A quality weather add-on.

More quality commercial planes (X-Plane is still pretty General Aviation Heavy)

That is really at this time I can say that I would like to see soon!

So if you haven't tried X-Plane 11 lately, I recommend giving it another shot!

 

[ErichB 3,642]

33 minutes ago, jh71 said:

Well, the end result is clearly more volumetric, while the other is obvious a flat rotating image. To each it's own.

REX Skyforce has changed volumetric size limitations on clouds, including the altitude limits. They are still 2D and they do still rotate, but SF has done a great job with taking the general look and feel to the next level.  If XP developers can achieve the look and feel of a SF environment, it would catapult XP to major league. 

[ErichB 3,642]

3 minutes ago, Sirxamoc said:

 

3 minutes ago, Sirxamoc said:

Things I would like to see in 3rd Party as soon as possible:

A quality weather add-on.

Not going to happen unless Austin and team provide the (extra) tools to make it happen.