C310 Redux Flight model question

[757FO 143]

hello all, is single engine flying characteristics accurately modeled?

thank you

John. 

[Pineapple_Wizard 42]

I am currently training in a Cessna 310 to get my multi engine rating. I have tried the Milviz C310 to help with practice procedures and maneuvers. I found that singe engine operations are not even close to the real world counterpart. If you fail an engine in the Milviz C310, it will be impossible to control and you will probably roll over and crash. In the real C310, an engine failure isn't all that dramatic and as easily countered by some rudder pressure. I was disappointed in the flight model in this regard; however, I don't believe Milviz advertise the aircraft being able to perform in non-normal procedures, such as an engine failure. I did find the flight model pretty spot on in normal climbs, cruise, and descents. It's pretty good, but not quite A2A level or what some would call "study level."

[fppilot 4,358]

Is this why you are asking?  There are links to motorist videos embedded in the article

Cessna 310R - One engine out

Edited April 4, 2018 by fppilot

[Milviz 919]

39 minutes ago, Pineapple_Wizard said:

I am currently training in a Cessna 310 to get my multi engine rating. I have tried the Milviz C310 to help with practice procedures and maneuvers. I found that singe engine operations are not even close to the real world counterpart. If you fail an engine in the Milviz C310, it will be impossible to control and you will probably roll over and crash. In the real C310, an engine failure isn't all that dramatic and as easily countered by some rudder pressure. I was disappointed in the flight model in this regard; however, I don't believe Milviz advertise the aircraft being able to perform in non-normal procedures, such as an engine failure. I did find the flight model pretty spot on in normal climbs, cruise, and descents. It's pretty good, but not quite A2A level or what some would call "study level."

Funny you should say that because actual flight schools use this product as a trainer for engine out behavior as it's proven to be quite realistic in that regard.  Sorry for disagreeing with you but... I think you're wrong.

[fppilot 4,358]

1 hour ago, Pineapple_Wizard said:

I was disappointed in the flight model in this regard; however, I don't believe Milviz advertise the aircraft being able to perform in non-normal procedures, such as an engine failure.

Actually if you read the section in the User Guide, 2-12 (page 24) in regard to Propeller Feathering, you will see that Milviz did address that, likely to the extent that they could based on simulator limitations, and went beyond that on their own to simulate full feathering to break through the sim limitations.  And on 4-2 and 4-3 you will find emergency procedures for engine out situations.  So they certainly thought through that circumstance and factored in into the model.

[Pineapple_Wizard 42]

3 hours ago, Milviz said:

Funny you should say that because actual flight schools use this product as a trainer for engine out behavior as it's proven to be quite realistic in that regard.  Sorry for disagreeing with you but... I think you're wrong.

I don't know what C310s you've been flying but I can assure you they do not spiral out of control despite inputs when you lose an engine. Moderate to heavy (depending on operative engine power) rudder pressure and 5 degrees of bank into the operative engine is all that is needed to maintain directional control in zero sideslip. I was utterly unable to maintain this in the simulator. Maybe my setup isn't the same as those flight schools? Even my school's FTD sims don't do justice to the real thing in terms of handling.

3 hours ago, fppilot said:

Actually if you read the section in the User Guide, 2-12 (page 24) in regard to Propeller Feathering, you will see that Milviz did address that, likely to the extent that they could based on simulator limitations, and went beyond that on their own to simulate full feathering to break through the sim limitations.  And on 4-2 and 4-3 you will find emergency procedures for engine out situations.  So they certainly thought through that circumstance and factored in into the model.

Having read that, I do now see why I couldn't get the engine to feather. Even so an unfeathered engine is not the end of the world. The Milviz model was essentially uncontrollable with a failed engine and a non feathered propeller. I will give it a try with a feathered engine this time and see what happens.

[fppilot 4,358]

6 minutes ago, Pineapple_Wizard said:

I will give it a try with a feathered engine this time and see what happens.

And please report back on perhaps (3) other simulator highly regarded payware twins in the same class and how they perform in the same regard under the same conditions.  OK?

Edited April 5, 2018 by fppilot

[Milviz 919]

With the FDE done by Bernt Stolle and approved by an actual owner of a 310... I really am very surprised to hear anyone say it flies the way you say it does.  You'd be the only one.  

Edited April 5, 2018 by Milviz

[dbw1 445]

I flew a C310 birddogging for 1500 hrs on forest fire suppression and the aircraft was put through maneuvers that i imagine Cessna didn't have in mind when certifying it. The ones I flew had a VG kit to increase weight to 5680 for take off and on a hot day till you burned off an hour or more of fuel (these had also locker fuel tanks for a total of 1200 pounds of fuel - yes in a 310) it was a real pig and even though the graphs said s/e climb was possible i have my doubts at least for awhile after take off. S/E at high weights on a warm/hot day required precise technique to be successful. I was really lucky to have received great training from people who had some serious time in the 310 - not someone who has simply  received a checkout, put a few hours in it driving from A-B and then is supposed to teach other how it is done.  Drift down is another story...you can usually always make that work. It's a great piston twin. My only complaint with the 310R is it is not good in ice - personal opinion.

Anyway, where I am going with this is I have a lot of experience in this airplane doing things other than straight and level and I am darn happy with what MilViz has done with the 310R. I think this is a very close replication of the actual aircraft and what it can do within the confines of P3d.

Dave

[Milviz 919]

Thanks Dave. The team worked hard on this and the first.  All kudo's to them.

[diegus011 7]

On 4/4/2018 at 7:20 PM, Pineapple_Wizard said:I don't know what C310s you've been flying but I can assure you they do not spiral out of control despite inputs when you lose an engine. Moderate to heavy (depending on operative engine power) rudder pressure and 5 degrees of bank into the operative engine is all that is needed to maintain directional control in zero sideslip. I was utterly unable to maintain this in the simulator. Maybe my setup isn't the same as those flight schools?

My milviz 310 does not spiral out control in P3DV4. It handles quite nicely on one engine. You must be flying it wrong. Have another go at reading the manual, or maybe ask in the flying/technique forums.

[rightseat 277]

On another note, are you using rudder pedals instead of a twist-type joystick? That may make some difference in how the plane reacts in the sim versus how we hold rudder pressure and raise the dead when we're squaring away a failed engine. I find it really difficult to do all this smoothly with a twist type joystick. Just a thought.