744 Hard landing. Qustions.

[Patco Lch 1,459]

Yesterday I flew the RNAV RWY RWY 32 into Dover AFB in QOTSII. Wind was 320/14, visibility 10+ so I hand flew her down from FAF. Touch down seemed kind of hard (love the cockpit racket and rattle sound package). Watching the replay I touched down a few feet short of RWY threshold on the overrun area and bounced up about 5-10 feet before settling. There was no indication of damage to the under carriage, no busted tires and brake temp was fine at the ramp after taxi in. 2 all around. This raised questions of curiosity  to me.

1. Would an aircraft with a LGW of 508652 IBS bounce like a 172? Is that realistic?

2.If so could this happen with no damage to the airframe or under carriage?

3.Knowing PMDG strives unto exhaustion to model the real aircraft I'm sure the under carriage limitations are accurate. Correct?

4. After a bone head landing like that would I still be employed with Atlas Air?   

[Samany69 41]

Hello Vic.

8 minutes ago, PATCO LCH said:

1. Would an aircraft with a LGW of 508652 IBS bounce like a 172? Is that realistic?

 yes but you can consider due to damping process, its gonna be a bigger bounce hence longer time to settle afterwards

10 minutes ago, PATCO LCH said:

2.If so could this happen with no damage to the airframe or under carriage?

A bounce does not necessarily mean that you have damaged the bird, yet when a Pilot just Feels that he had a hard landing but visually or systematically the bird looks fine and no system or computer reports are shown in the plane, he fills a report to the Maintenance Crew and they will start an inspection procedure immediately.

14 minutes ago, PATCO LCH said:

3.Knowing PMDG strives unto exhaustion to model the real aircraft I'm sure the under carriage limitations are accurate. Correct?

I'm not working in PMDG, But what I can tell you as a user of PMDG is a clear YES to this question!

15 minutes ago, PATCO LCH said:

4. After a bone head landing like that would I still be employed with Atlas Air?

well you better buy some cookies and a big bottle of 30 yo Scotch before meeting your operations manager and so your boss 



Cheers.

-S.

[Samany69 41]

Sorry for Extra Post: 

Just saying, You might wanna try using an addon called LRM : Landing Rate Monitor which is totally free and gives a Good idea how slowly and soft or hard did you touch down, but i stopped using it simply because it is not a complete tool to measure your landing quality.

 

Have Fun with the Queen.

 

-S.
 

[thibodba57 462]

1 hour ago, PATCO LCH said:

4. After a bone head landing like that would I still be employed with Atlas Air?   

Without really wanting to get into further details.  Yes.

[G-RFRY 1,705]

I have read that pilot`s will do harder than normal landing due runway conditions wet runway to reduce the risk of skidding. 

[thibodba57 462]

13 hours ago, rjfry said:

I have read that pilot`s will do harder than normal landing due runway conditions wet runway to reduce the risk of skidding. 

There is a difference between a "harder than normal landing" and bouncing.  A firm landing is just that.  Firm and the plane sticks as it transfers it's energy.  Bouncing is potentially catastrophic.

[jon b 2,041]

On ‎09‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 9:31 PM, PATCO LCH said:

 

1. Would an aircraft with a LGW of 508652 IBS bounce like a 172? Is that realistic?

 

I once had an FO completely not bother with the flare, and yes she'll bounce !

Only seen it a couple of times, it's not nice.

With regards to the firm landing on a wet runway, the idea is not so much to deliberately land hard, but not to float or aim for a very soft touchdown. The reason being there is a danger, believe it or not , that the aircraft will effectively act like a sea plane and aquaplane on top of the layer of water if the touchdown is very soft. A firm touchdown breaks through the water onto tarmac so the wheels can brake. This applies to anything, microlight right up to the 744.

Regards

 

Jon Bunting

[rondon9898 84]

Is it not the case that with the spoilers deploying to dump the lift, you have to give it one hell of a slamming for an aircraft like the 747 to bounce? I might be wrong there. That said, my dad was a passenger in a 747 once going to pick up a Citation from the States and he said the landing was so hard  he felt the bounce and the oxygen masks deployed. Heavy landing check necesssary there I’d have thought.

[Captain Kevin 586]

Would the plane bounce? Um....

 

[BlueStar 323]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 3:31 PM, PATCO LCH said:

I touched down a few feet short of RWY threshold on the overrun area and bounced up about 5-10 feet before settling

Hey Vic,

I've posted this before.  The B744 is certified at 10 fps at MGLW and 6 fps at MLW.   I've bounced more than one.  In the "11" there is special training for a bounced landing and the recovery.  It does not like it.

What would be a CLM in my world is a short landing.  I was told early on in my career by the CP,  "Anything but short, You land short I'll fire you."  

[Patco Lch 1,459]

9 hours ago, Captain Kevin said:

Would the plane bounce? Um....

 

Ouch!

[berts 97]

On 09/04/2018 at 9:31 PM, PATCO LCH said:

1 Would an aircraft with a LGW of 508652 IBS bounce like a 172? Is that realistic?

2.If so could this happen with no damage to the airframe or under carriage?

3.Knowing PMDG strives unto exhaustion to model the real aircraft I'm sure the under carriage limitations are accurate. Correct?

4. After a bone head landing like that would I still be employed with Atlas Air?   

1. Yes, but not exactly like the much lighter C172 (see Vic's video posty)

2. At or below Max Landing Weight it will definitely be very embarrasing because the overhead lockers and oxygen masks will probably drop down.  You are likely to do damage to the airframe if you attempt to land at higher weights. There have been reports i9n the past that the original B747 would sometimes fail to flare properly during an autoland and this would result in a much heavier than normal landing, but without any physical damage, so the undercarriage structure and airframe is very strong. However, the ground engineers will normally always carry our a Heavy Landing Check (or equivalent) after any of these landings. 

3. Yes

4. Probably not!  Be prepared for the Chief Pilot to present you with a watering can as you leave to start your new career as a gardener and he will probably say "Now you've planted it you can go and water it!"

Bertie Goddard

[Captain Kevin 586]

7 hours ago, berts said:

1. Yes, but not exactly like the much lighter C172 (see Vic's video posty)

That wasn't Vic, Vic is the guy you're responding to.

[PopsBellNC 21]

On 4/9/2018 at 4:31 PM, PATCO LCH said:

 

1. Would an aircraft with a LGW of 508652 IBS bounce like a 172? Is that realistic?

2.If so could this happen with no damage to the airframe or under carriage?

4. After a bone head landing like that would I still be employed with Atlas Air?   

1. Oh HELL yes!

2. Depending on a number of environmental conditions, it's quite possible to pop a few tires...

4. Lol! Yeah, you're cool - especially if your 'bounce' wasn't in the US. ;)

[PopsBellNC 21]

On 4/12/2018 at 6:24 AM, PATCO LCH said:

Ouch!

I have only one more thing to add;

 f=ma