Controlling speeds of an Empty 744/F after takeoff

[SKIPS2 3]

Hi Guys,

 

Can anyone offer any tips or procedures for controlling speeds after takeoff on an Empty 744/F? ..mostly Freighter as I'm a Freight Dog.

I always end up busting speeds for flap retraction...is there any way to control speeds? I mean I can control the speeds but at the expense of a ridiculously high pitch 20 degrees or more. Btw, I always use even the lowest derates but still bust speeds.

Vnav..i guess is a no-no as acft wants to get to 250kt like rapido! Maybe perhaps a trick to FL CH or V/S immediately after takeoff? Or maybe set a low speed/constraint in the FMC as trigger?

I ask this as I love to do positioning flights for my VA Cargolux :)))

 

Regards,

Dario

[scandinavian13 5,192]

1 hour ago, SKIPS2 said:

Can anyone offer any tips or procedures for controlling speeds after takeoff on an Empty 744/F?

De-rate, and pitch.

[berts 97]

On 13/04/2018 at 3:11 AM, scandinavian13 said:

De-rate, and pitch.

Plus use the AP/FD in VNAV - or give the sector to your co-pilot!   When flying manually you need to look through the flight director more (even if it is programmed correctly) and anticipate the effects of the aircraft's inertia.

Bertie Goddard

[jon b 2,046]

.....and watch the deck angle or you’ll uncover the main 2+4 forward fuel pumps !

 

Jon Bunting 

[CF6 2]

When positioning empty in my company, we always bring a minimum of 25 tonnes of fuel. Maximum de-rate+assumed temperature for takeoff and de-rated climb. Depending on your rotation speed, you might end up on a initial climb speed slightly higher than normal V2+10/25, but dont worry to much about that. Don't start flaps retraction until acceleration height even if slightly above the flaps 10-"bug". When accelerating, keep the necessary pitch and do not delay retracting flaps passing through the recommended speed for the next position. Exceeding structural speeds should not be a problem in neither VNAV nor FLCH.

Things happens very quickly during these takeoffs. It's usually easier if you do a noise abatement procedure. I suggest selecting 3000ft for acceleration height and 1500 for thrust reduction. 

 

Good luck! 

[berts 97]

1 hour ago, CF6 said:

When positioning empty in my company, we always bring a minimum of 25 tonnes of fuel. Maximum de-rate+assumed temperature for takeoff and de-rated climb. Depending on your rotation speed, you might end up on a initial climb speed slightly higher than normal V2+10/25, but dont worry to much about that. Don't start flaps retraction until acceleration height even if slightly above the flaps 10-"bug". When accelerating, keep the necessary pitch and do not delay retracting flaps passing through the recommended speed for the next position. Exceeding structural speeds should not be a problem in neither VNAV nor FLCH.

Things happens very quickly during these takeoffs. It's usually easier if you do a noise abatement procedure. I suggest selecting 3000ft for acceleration height and 1500 for thrust reduction.

Good luck! 

This is all good advice, although it is normally advisable to stick to the company's published clean up procedures, rather than change the acceleration height or thrust reduction to something which might be non-standard.

As you rightly say, things happen very quickly during these takeoffs.  if the flight crew are unfortunate enough to suffer an engine failure during this time and assuming they are more familiar with the airline's standard operating procedures means that there is likely to be less chance of them missing something important or making a mistake. The other thing to watch out for shortly after takeoff is controlling the aircraft's speed and altitude during an intermediate level-off; especially if it occurs during the Flap retraction.

Maintaining directional control during the initial takeoff roll until VMCG is achieved is another issue, especially if the runway is slippery or icy.

Bertie   

[CF6 2]

I'm not familiar with the VA Cargolux SOP, but my company allows us to choose this on pilot discretion if nothing else is dictated. Sometimes there are good reasons for delaying flap retraction. 

Agreed, low speed outboard engine failures are truly one of the most challenging maneuvers in this aircraft.  

[MarkJHarris 128]

Of course, in the old days, you'd just knock the autothottle off and pull back to a sensible power setting to settle it all down. Rare to find a real airline pilot that dare fly without the automatics now.....

[jon b 2,046]

Yep, the world has gone mad!.

Mark I see in your signature there is says ATP, is that the aircraft or certification?

cheers

Jon Bunting

Edited April 30, 2018 by jon b

[svfranchini 7]

Both methods should be used simultaneously:

De-rate+Assumed temperature.

 

Example De-rate TO-2 + 75°C. Result: Pitch not more than 20° and a good manage of speed.

 

Try it and let me know!

 

Regards

 

Santiago V

Edited May 4, 2018 by svfranchini

[SKIPS2 3]

Think I got a hang of it now...i think.

MIN DISPATCH FUEL : 25t

MAX DERATE: 74-75c

ACC HEIGHT 3000

THRUST RED: 1500

15-20 DEGREES PITCH

 

Works like charm!! Thx guys

So addicted to these low payload/empty POS FLTS

 

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

Wouldn't it be easier to pitch up to the max allowable nose up pitch attitude and then just take the extra performance?

Clean up the airplane on the normal schedule and go from there...